Author Topic: GV questions/concerns  (Read 2626 times)

Offline emodin

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GV questions/concerns
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2004, 10:14:31 PM »
I can agree with you that spalling was and is a major factor in tank crew survivability.  I am not, nor do I even pretend to be a computer programer.  However, I would assume that it would be difficult to model spalling in tanks without a major amount of work.  Do you want a set number of spalling fragements to be modeled given a certain penetartion table, or do you want a variable number of projectiles determined by a host of factors?  Let's assume that you want a set number of fragments created by spalling to be modeled (call it 5).  Now that you have that down, how do you want to model the way the spalling interacts with the inside of the tank?  Are you going to model a set way they fly out from the impact point, or are you going to make that a variable?  Are you going to model a set patern of richochettes, or are you going to make that a variable model too?  Are you going to model every crewmember and their exact position in order to determine if they get hit, or only a couple of "critical" ones?  And if you are only going to model a couple of them, how do you determine who is "critical" and who is not?

Look, I agree that the damage model isn't perfect, but I would think that modeling spalling would be a huge undertaking that would detract from the amount of time HTC would have to model new planes, not to mention AH2.  I would also like to see ammo storage areas capable of brewing up and engine fires that could damage or even destroy a tank.  While I would like to see these implimented, I can also see how doing so would probably take a lot of time and effort, and that the game engine would probably have to support that as well, not to mention the system requrements needed to compute all of that in real time.  Instead, we seem to have a damage model that is location specific: if you get a penetration in a certain location, you kill the tank/engine/main gun/track, ect.  While I have read that some people can't kill tanks when hitting them in the locations I aim for, I CAN say that I do not seem to have their problem.  I have not observed any of the strange occurences that others have mentioned.  Maybe I'm just lucky.

While I agree with you there is room for improving the ground vehicle damage model, I can also understand why it is the way it is.

As for information in regards to crew/tank survivability when penetrated by an enemy shell in excess of 14.5mm, I'll have to check.  I do recall reading a book (don't remember if it was from "Death Traps" or "Marine Tank Battles in Korea", or another book entirely)  where an enemy shell was found lodged under the driver's position  after the tank had been engaged in combat with some enemy tanks.  IIRC none of the crew were hurt, and the tank was fine.

Offline DrDea

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GV questions/concerns
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2004, 12:36:34 AM »
I always looked at the GV model as I looked at the movie Titanic.I dont expect perfection.Just entertainment.We all know theres a "Chance" equation involved to a small degree,but yoiu can also improve your chances.Either you like GV's regardless,or you dont.Its just part of this addiction we love so much.
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Offline NoBaddy

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GV questions/concerns
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2004, 07:27:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DrDea
I always looked at the GV model as I looked at the movie Titanic.I dont expect perfection.Just entertainment.We all know theres a "Chance" equation involved to a small degree,but yoiu can also improve your chances.Either you like GV's regardless,or you dont.Its just part of this addiction we love so much.



Ditto....bottomline, if you ain't havin' fun....do something else :).
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Offline _Schadenfreude_

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« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2004, 07:39:13 AM »
Bet there was a meeting a couple of years ago when the game was being developed and someone said "Gee wouldn't it be great if people could drive around and fight in tanks!!!"

Bet he's STILL buying beers for the team for coming up with that idea!

Online Meatwad

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« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2004, 11:01:56 AM »
Not too long ago I was in a panzer and was firing at an M3. He was broadside to me about D1600. I fired an AP round at it and it bounced off the hood of the M3.  I didnt think that was possible, but the second shot took out its track, third killed it. The reason its track got knocked out was that I hit it right at the track.  Other then that in GV's, I havent really had much trouble in them.  I for one make a lot of 1 shot kills in Gv's. From my experience its where you have to hit the enemy at to make the most damage.  Turrent shots usually take out the turrnet. If the first one dont do it, the second one usually does.  And this is when im in a panzer. If I am in a tiger, 1 shot usually does it for me to get a kill on an enemy. I have been able to get 1 shot kills in a tiger from D600 to D4000 to D5000+, all from proper ranging (which isnt easy!) I have cable interenet connection, so I wonder if your connection/lag/ping time will have an effect on firing on gv's?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2004, 11:26:24 AM by Meatwad »
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Offline moot

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GV questions/concerns
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2004, 11:49:16 AM »
"...] if your connection/lag/ping time will have an effect on firing on gv's?"

Not likely; this is speculation, but the FE-dependent collision system for planes is a good one against netlag, it should probably be the same for GVs as it is for planes' weapons.

From about 150-400yds I've landed about three 88mm HEs on the top of a running (away) M3's rear panels, at an angle, but anyway, hard to imagine a vehicle like an M3 surviving three HE explosions like those.
Either a bug, or shells punching through without detonation are part of the model.  Hard to tell with only two graphics for all impacts, and no official word on what is or isn't modeled in the DM.
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Offline Gixer

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« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2004, 12:33:13 PM »
Never understood why people bother with GV's ever since their first introduction, so many aspects of it that are complete waste of time.

If your looking for a land war go play WW2OL it's far superior in that regard.



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Offline simshell

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« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2004, 12:50:52 PM »
there not a hole waste they give me some thing to shoot at in my IL2

i dont care what people say the IL2 is king gun killer of tanks

just have to ask were ostwins that deadly in real life as they are in here
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Offline Gixer

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« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2004, 01:30:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by simshell
there not a hole waste they give me some thing to shoot at in my IL2

i dont care what people say the IL2 is king gun killer of tanks

just have to ask were ostwins that deadly in real life as they are in here



Always had more fun shooting down fighters thinking they were going for an easy kill when in a IL2 myself.



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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2004, 01:44:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by simshell
there not a hole waste they give me some thing to shoot at in my IL2

i dont care what people say the IL2 is king gun killer of tanks

just have to ask were ostwins that deadly in real life as they are in here


na, the hurri mkiiC is the best ;)

normaly, if you get it right you can get 2 gvs with one bomb then another 4-6 with the cannons :D
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Offline DrDea

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« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2004, 03:09:03 PM »
The G 10 30 mm aint no slouch on the GV's either.
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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2004, 03:12:49 PM »
suppose, but it cant pull out of dives too well... and doesnt carry eggs either ;)
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline DrDea

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« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2004, 06:19:14 PM »
Eggs?Posh.Who needs em:rofl
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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2004, 06:38:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DrDea
Eggs?Posh.Who needs em:rofl


i suppose, they just get assists...its whoever can get the most hits from bullets that kills ;)
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline DrDea

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« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2004, 07:11:15 PM »
But then again a Heavy Stuka can be a beautifull thing:lol
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