Author Topic: Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?  (Read 2253 times)

Offline straffo

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2004, 02:54:13 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
Pompidou and Mitterand were certainly not the players on the world stage that Reagan was.

Yet President Nixon attended Pompidou's funeral in '74.

Again, how would the French have felt if we had sent only the Secretary of State to De Gaulle's funeral? Would they have taken it as a slight?

Answer honestly, Scholz, Schade. If you can.


For you certainly, but président Pompidou is still very present in our memory and Mitterrand was président during 14 year.

They were as important in my eyes as Reagan in your.

Offline AKcurly

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2004, 03:33:33 AM »
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why would Chirac go? Reagan was everything Chirac will never be.

Reagan was a leader, a visionary, a communicater, a geniune human being, honest, a victor, respected...etc.


Honest?

curly

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2004, 04:42:59 AM »
Could someone please explain to me as a foreigner what the whole Iran-Contra thing was about?

Offline AKcurly

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2004, 05:00:46 AM »
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Could someone please explain to me as a foreigner what the whole Iran-Contra thing was about?


What a mess!  The US congress made it illegal for Reagan to aid the rebels in Nicaragua in their fight to overthrow the Sandinistas.

At the same time, Reagan was searching for ways to free US hostages held in Lebanon.

Iran agreed to intervene with Lebanon if we would sell them weapons (under the table, so to speak.)   The profits from the weapons sale were diverted to the Nicaraguan rebels.

Reagan dodged the bullet, but many of his confederates were convicted (but pardoned later by Bush.)  Reagan's ability to laugh off the entire mess earned him the sobriquet "the teflon president."

The entire proceedings from the iran-contra hearings are located here:http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/publications/irancontra/irancon.html

Reagan, yeah, he was a real charmer. :rolleyes:

curly

edit: whoops the above link is a commercial microfiche site.  I'm sure you can track down more details using yahoo/google.

Offline SOB

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2004, 05:01:00 AM »
Christ, what a bunch of women.  Toad, in answer to your question: who gives a crap.  If they did gripe about it, they'd be just as whiney and retarded as the americans whining about Chirac in this thread.  Do you people skulk around the funerals of your loved ones too, trying to spy out the people there who aren't grieving enough?
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Offline Red Tail 444

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2004, 05:57:43 AM »
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Originally posted by AKIron
Any foreign leader who happens to be in the US during his funeral would likely gain a little favor among Americans by paying his respect,


So you suggest he or any foreign leader should attend a funeral just to gain favor with the U.S.? Seems that's a bit insincere, and I wouldn't want anyone to attend for that purpose.

 
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
especially the leader of a country that owes so much to America like Chirac. [/B]


France was a major player on our side in the Revolutionary War.

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2004, 06:00:02 AM »
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Originally posted by SOB
Do you people skulk around the funerals of your loved ones too, trying to spy out the people there who aren't grieving enough?


Superb comment and the only reason I'm not putting into my sig is that no-one would have the slightest idea what it's about!

storch

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #82 on: June 10, 2004, 06:39:29 AM »
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
So you suggest he or any foreign leader should attend a funeral just to gain favor with the U.S.? Seems that's a bit insincere, and I wouldn't want anyone to attend for that purpose.

 

France was a major player on our side in the Revolutionary War.


The French showed up at the last minute then spent every waking minute begging us to surrender.

Offline Saintaw

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #83 on: June 10, 2004, 06:42:48 AM »
Storch alert!!!! Yuros head for the closest  shelter!!!
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Dirty, nasty furriner.

storch

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #84 on: June 10, 2004, 07:05:17 AM »
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Storch alert!!!! Yuros head for the closest  shelter!!!


Stop hijacking threads!!

Offline AKcurly

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #85 on: June 10, 2004, 07:21:45 AM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29859-2004Jun9.html

By Jim Hoagland
Thursday, June 10, 2004; Page A19

The good that Ronald Reagan did is not being buried with his bones tomorrow, as Shakespeare's Mark Antony predicted of Caesar. Reagan's good is being disinterred and magnified. It is being raised to new and unrealistic heights that will live on, and hang heavily over his successors, in public expectations.
   

This is not to begrudge the 40th president the thunderous applause that has come from politicians, journalists, historians and citizens to mark Reagan's final bow. Ill should rarely be spoken of the dead. But it is puzzling how these assessments of Reagan's accomplishments have improved so dramatically and uniformly in the 16 years since he left office.

Perhaps this is how contemporary history is made or, in the electronic era, mismade and distorted. Reagan's growing reputation as the great victor in the Cold War who made Mikhail Gorbachev tear down the Berlin Wall depends on looking at Reagan and his times through the light cast by subsequent events.

The craving by Americans for uncluttered heroism -- for what is seen in retrospect as the order and clarity of the Cold War -- also powers this yearning for a near-mythical transformation of Reagan's death into a moment to sweep aside the dread and anguish of the wars in Iraq and against al Qaeda.

Yes, winners always write the history. But it is dangerously easy today to make the leap from that news footage of Reagan speaking at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin to concluding that he came to office with a master plan to make victory in the Cold War inevitable. As one television executive said to me not long ago, "Today history is what we say it is."

To one who covered many of the key international events of that day, Reagan seemed in fact to come late to a realistic view of the Soviet Union and the world, and -- like most presidents -- to have improvised furiously and not always successfully in foreign affairs.

It is also easy in today's elegiac mood to forget how unpopular Reagan was abroad for most of his presidency, even among his peers. France's Francois Mitterrand once sputtered in rage at me when I asked about his ideological conflicts with Reagan over Soviet policies. Kremlin officials expressed private delight at Reagan's election because they would be able to "roll him."

That is no skin off Reagan's record. He was more right about the evil and the fate of Soviet imperialism than Mitterrand, Gorbachev and most other leaders of the day. He was far from the amiable dunce portrayed by his knee-jerk critics.

But the opposition that Reagan stirred should not be airbrushed out of the final photograph of his times. Nor can we ignore the fact that the analysis and policies that brought some breakthroughs with Moscow originated more with George Shultz at the State Department than at Reagan's White House.

The Wall collapsed a year after Reagan's successor had been chosen and had started to alter policies toward Moscow. That collapse was due more to the struggle in the 1980s of the citizens of Poland, Hungary, East Germany and other satellite nations than to new actions by Washington. Nor should we minimize the contribution that a half-century of common dedication by U.S. and West European citizens and their military forces made to the final collapse of the Soviet empire.

There were important costs that came with Reagan's undeniable successes. His confrontational style used in getting much-needed Pershing 2 missiles deployed in Europe helped prematurely end the career of West Germany's highly competent chancellor, Helmut Schmidt.

U.S. support extended to guerrillas to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan has blown back in the form of al Qaeda and extreme instability in Central Asia. U.S. help to Saddam Hussein in Iraq also boomeranged. Iran-contra was not as great an aberration at the Reagan White House as it is often painted today.

The commentariat has made many of the right points about Reagan's uplifting personality and all the good and the fascinating that will live after him. Even if he was not a great president, he lived a great life from which we can all learn.

But if we airbrush and prettify history for the small screen and the front page, and ultimately for the books to come, we will not learn the most important lessons about mistakes that can be avoided. Let Reagan be Reagan, warts and all, for all time now.

Offline Eagler

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2004, 07:24:53 AM »
who cares what the french think or do... sort of like AKcurly's conservative hating posts :)
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storch

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #87 on: June 10, 2004, 07:31:03 AM »
AKcurly, Very well thought out and written.  But somewhat revisionist and in keeping with your misguided political slant.  We spent the major part of the cold war dragging our "allies" kicking and screaming every step of the way.  Furthermore Mr. Reagans domestic and foreign policies almost bankrupted us but they certainly bankrupted the former soviet union and were actually the coup de grace.  Get it straight.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2004, 07:43:20 AM by storch »

Offline Habu

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #88 on: June 10, 2004, 08:09:43 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
The rampant French bashing is not limited to this thread Toad. Considering the way the French have been treated by Americans both officially and publicly you should be happy that they send any representative at all.


Umm are you saying that the US decided to pick on France and therefore France is justified in snubbing the US any chance it can?

That the relationship has nothing to do with France's policy of trying to undermine the US as a superpower (due to Frances' inferiority complex) and thus trying to use the European Union or the UN, the World Court or any other organization to do so?

France is in decline. Economically, politically, socially and nationally. They know it too. Don't worry about France. In 20 years they will be on the same level as the Portugals and Greeces of the world. Not in the same league as the US China Russia Japan England Canada and all.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2004, 08:25:25 AM by Habu »

Offline AKcurly

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Chirac in the US and not going to attend Reagan's funeral?
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2004, 08:09:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
AKcurly, Very well thought out and written.  But somewhat revisionist and in keeping with your misguided political slant.  We spent the major part of the cold war dragging our "allies" kicking and screaming every step of the way.  Furthermore Mr. Reagans domestic and foreign policies almost bankrupted us but they certainly bankrupted the former soviet union and were actually the coup de grace.  Get it straight.


Tell me, Storch.  If I were standing in my front yard and a meteorite struck the ground 100 feet away, would you give me credit for making the meteor fall?  

Reagan's share of the responsibility for the collapse of the Eastern bloc is precisely the same as my responsibility for the meteor falling ... we were simply there.

curly