Author Topic: HT, how about unperking the Spit14?  (Read 1382 times)

Offline Kweassa

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« on: August 12, 2004, 03:04:26 PM »
The Ta152H-1 or the F4U-4 would be justified in some amount of perkage as to retain its status as a 'rare' fighter to see in WW2. More or less same logic can apply to the Tempest V.

 However the Spit14 is not.

 The Spit14 was a common fighter and a regular addition to the RAF which could be seen in large numbers since 1944. It's performance as a fighter is impressive, but not so high as to justify the current, penalizingly high prices.

 Like some have already mentioned, it's low-altitude speed range is still slower than quite a large number of planes.

 It boasts excellent climbing ablities and acceleration, but the Bf109G-10 is readily on par with the Spit14, which is a free plane.

 It has excellent maneuverabilty for a plane of its speed, but again, this is not a trait which only the Spit14 has.

 It's high alt performance is very good, but still a lot of plane are as fast(or even faster, such as the Bf109G-10 marked at 452mph at 22k), and also boast much simular high alt qualities.


 All in all, the arena is already full of late-war variants such as the La-7, P-51D, Fw190D-9, Bf109G-10, and etc etc., but of those many planes of many nationalities only the RAF is exmept from being able to use a competitive late-war plane for free.

 I know how much you hate people assuming they know what you think, but in this case there's honestly no reason I can think of why the Spit14 must remain at such a high price range.

 What I can think of, is that the Spit14 was always a 'controversial' plane in terms of overuse, and subject to so many cynicism from all kinds of games before AH - WB, AW, FA.. etc etc.... and I am guessing that these past experiences influenced your decision about its status - whether to be perked or not, and how high it must be perked, if it is decided so... But I must cautiously protest that this might be an overkill.
 
 The Spit14 started out as a perked plane, unlike the F4U-1C which started as a non-perked plane.

 HTC went through a grueling process of evaluating its overuse, and finally arrived at its current price which has successfully limited its overall numbers, but not making it a totally rare plane, and fairly accessible at low prices.  

 Contrary to that, the Spit14 started off as a perked plane from the beginning of its introduction. To my knowledge, so far such planes which were perked from the start were always very high in performance that it was almost self-explanatory - like the 163 and 262, or even the Tempest V. Most people won't have to think "why was this plane perked from the start?"

 However, I believe that the Spit14 is different, as explained in the beginning of the post. The only distinct qualities it has over other planes, is that it is a plane balanced in speed and maneuverability, which is a rare trait. Indeed, such a trait is a reason for popularity, as we can see in the example of the Spit9 or the N1K2. However, that reason alone cannot explain such penalizingly high prices for such a significant plane of WW2.


 So I humbly plead, please, how about a test-period for the Spit14 for about two tours? If it is really so dangerous as to be needed to be perked at such high ranges, then it can always become re-perked.

 In my personal thought, the Spit14, even if it is perked, won't be of any threat to the MA in terms of balance. If it stays anywhere around 8~10%(in kills), I would expect it to be tolerable levels(as the La-7 and the P-51D have all maintained such high usage rate since the beginning of their introduction).

 If it would surge higher than 10%, then it would need to be perked, which should be adequate at 5~8 points tops, to successfully limit its usage. Previously, we saw a plane with 20% usage drop down to 2~3% levels with just 8 perks, in the example of the F4U-1C.

 If the Spit14 is in the 50 point price range from the beginning, then it must mean that HTC does not think it's just another plane that is plainly overused, but a plane with very high performance that needs to be suppressed with perks, to contain its usage. And that, is what I am very skeptical of.


 Please, just for two~three tours, try the Spitfire Mk.XIV as a free plane... and then, evaluate its perk price according to usage!


 Thanks for listening.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 03:06:48 PM by Kweassa »

Offline Karnak

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2004, 03:12:53 PM »
The slow speed + the perk icon = dead Spitfire Mk XIVs unless they are insanely conservative = not fun = not worth spending "reward" points on.

My choice would be to keep it perked, but relabel it SPIT instead of SPIT14 .
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Offline Halo

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2004, 05:09:49 PM »
What?  Is this a trick, Kweassa?  You, the Prince of Perks, petitioning for an UNperking of the Spit XIV?

(Looking all around suspiciously) ... okay, I'll second that.  

If anyone knows perk intricacies, it's gotta be you, Kweassa.  Your rationale and persuasive presentations are always admirable, even if I detest perking in general.
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Offline thrila

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2004, 05:20:11 PM »
I would comment, but i'm so biased so i don't think i should.
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Offline Urchin

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2004, 06:07:42 PM »
I agree with Kweassa, the performance of planes like the La7, Typhoon, 190g10, P-51d, and 190d9 mean perking the Spit14, Ta152, and F4U4 renders them basically unusable.

The Ta152 is basically worthless in the MA, below 10k you would be hard pressed to find a plane that didn't out-perform it in every aspect.  

The F4U-4 is good, but a competently flown 109G-10 is more than a match for it, and the La-7 is better than the 109G-10 at everything.  

However, both of those planes were relatively rare in WW2, so I can understand perking them to keep them rare in the MA.  Although, quite a few planes only had production runs in the hundreds, so a plane being classified as rare because there weren't 14,000 made might be slightly inaccurate.  For example, the N1K2 had a small production run, as did the C205 (the C205 might be on par with the Ta152 as far as how many were made).

The Spit 14 is a completely different matter.  Below 5k, it is slower than the G-10, D-9, La-7, P-51, and Typhoon.  In other words, it is slower than every "fast" free plane in the set.  While it does outclimb every free plane in the set (by a couple hundred feet per minute), it can only do that as long as it has WEP.. which only lasts 5 minutes.  After that your perked Spit 14 is a 109G-6 with better firepower.

Compared to the La-7, even the Tempest isn't that impressive performance-wise, although I imagine if it were unperked all the La-7 pilots would switch to it because it has much better firepower.

I think that the popularity of the Spit 9 (which seems to be waning anyway) has played some role in the price of the Spit 14 being set so high.  However, I also think that most Spit pilots might fly the Spit 14, find out it is completely different from the spit 5 or spit 9 they are used to, and stop flying it.

The Spit 14, from what I've seen, really isn't anything special, performance-wise.  For 5 minutes, it is a 109G-10 with three times the firepower, but once the WEP runs out it is pretty much helpless (especially in the MA).

Offline Karnak

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2004, 06:15:48 PM »
Urchin,

So far as I know the Bf109G-10 outclimbs the Spitfire Mk XIV in AH2.  In AH1 the Spitfire Mk XIV was the fastest climber.

What you say is mostly true, but you exagerate it's firepower and leave out it's "Kill Me Now" icon.
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Offline Fruda

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2004, 03:32:12 AM »
I'm with you here, Kweassa. Un-perk the Spit 14, or I'll have a migraine (last time I flew one, a 30mm shell clipped my wing, and 70 points went down the drain).

Oh, and FYI... The La-7 is only superior to the G-10 in AH because barely anybody flies above 10k. The G-10 would rape the La-7 at 15k+... Just letting you know.

Offline Ghosth

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2004, 06:11:56 AM »
Unperk it, no, pull it & the F4u-4 & TA down to a reasonable 5 - 10 perks, yes.

Offline Urchin

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2004, 11:45:04 AM »
Actually Fruda, the La-7 is at least as good as the G-10 up to 15k.  Haven't really fought above that alt, so I couldn't say for certain when the La-7 starts to gasp, but it isn't 15k.

Offline Urchin

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2004, 12:12:13 PM »
Karnak-  I don't think I overestimate the firepower at all.  I'd rate 2 Hispanos and 2 .50s at about 10 .50s worth of firepower.  Take the Hispanos by themselves, and I still say a Spitfire hits at least as hard as a P-47 (with 8 .50s).  I rate the Mg-151 at about 2 .50s, and the MG131 at about 1.  So I guess 2.5X the firepower instead of 3X.  

About the "kill me" tag.. I really don't see it.  For me it doesn't come into play to often.  I imagine you are talking about situations where there is a sizable number of friendlies and a sizable number of enemies fighting eachother, and a large chunk of one side goes after the perk plane on the other side.  

I see this all the time in just about every plane.  Hell, yesterday I was flying a Stuka over furball island (when I upped we had control of the air, by the time I got there they did), and got into a bit of a fight with 5 bishops and 3 or 4 other knights.  What ended up happening was me fighting a Niki, Hurricane, and P-47, while the other knights went after the two that didn't attack me.  Please don't tell me that they mistakenly thought the JU-87 was a perk plane?

Offline Karnak

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2004, 12:21:00 PM »
No, but JU87 = trophy and easy kill.

Happens to the Mossie all the time.  It's one of the reasons I will be switching to the Ki-84.

Still, if your icon had said SPIT14, 152 or F4U4 you get more attention than even a trophy plane.


Also, the Hispano's do roughly three times the damage the 50s do, not four times.
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Offline dedalos

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2004, 01:15:43 PM »
It be nice to be able to fly the 14 once in a while.  Yes the perk price is too high but I don't think it should be as low as the F4U-1C.  The F4U is a death trap in the MA environment.  So maybe perk it a little higher than the F4 and see what happens
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Offline Edbert

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2004, 02:27:36 PM »
I say leave it perked but remove the giant "kill me 1st" sign over its head.

Offline Innominate

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2004, 04:55:10 PM »
The cost of perk planes is irrelevent.
The gangbang tags force all prop perk planes to be flown too conservativly for it to be fun.

The cost determines how often people can use the planes.  It has little effect on how much fun those planes are to fly.

Offline Estes

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HT, how about unperking the Spit14?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2004, 05:00:08 PM »
I say leave it perked, and change the icon tag.