ENY disablements

[Muddie]

Amen.

Originally posted by Zanth
Sounds good, its the last part of the war nobody likes to live in.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Skeksis
If I may...I am not sure that taknig away the ability of the C47 to capture entirely is quite the right aproach.  Maybe taking a tip from Day of Defeat and having different sized cities requiring more or less numbers of troop loads to take, say 3 for a small city/field, 5 for a medium city/field, 7 for a large.  Then have each form of delivery be worth so many points, sayfor example a load of paratroops are worth 2 points of capture and an M3 worth 4?  Seems to me that this could really boost team play as people try to work together to get enough troops into an area to take an objective.  

One thing that I have seen more than once is a couple of loads of troops being brought in at the same time and all the credit goes to the guy who dropped first yet the other guy who worked his butt off to get that C47 to that city or field gets nothing out of it.

Something that I am certain I am not sanquine about is the current practice of the C47 piltos landing in out of the way places and sitting on the ground for 20 minutes before taking off and completing the capture.  Just how good were the 47s at landing on un prepared ground and then taking off again?

Skeksis

Hey, now THERE is an idea.

The capture itself could be based on numerical levels. And on proximity to reset, and size of the base.

The more outnumbered a country is, the more troops required to take its territorty (I realize of course this is backwards from real life, EXCEPT for the fact that the desperate fight harder).

The larger the base, the more troops required to take it.

The more strats in the area (ie "zone" base), the more troops required to capture the base.

The closer to reset and or the closer to HQ, the more troops it takes to capture a base.


The need for more troops will most certainly cut down on the number of truly offense planes and vehicles by the attacker, since LA 7's don't carry troops, and C-47s don't have guns, rockets, or bombs.

That should slow the steamroller in several ways.

More troop carriers of any kind means not only less fighters, bombers, and JABO's, but also more need to devote fighters to protect those troops. And it will be easier to stop a capture by taking out a single troop carrier, be it plane or GV.

Less capture to some degree, and more fight. Can't be all bad, for sure.

[Waffle]

I see alot off good ideas that will make a country come together and organize itself.

One thing I really like is the SYSTEM doing the mission announcement. Once a mission is posted have an announcement everyminute untill the last 2 mins where it would announce in a different color (say red) every 30 seconds before it launches.


I had a thought also dealing with base capture, but not sure how hard it would be to implement.

Besides the obvious toughening up of the town and adding distance - would be adding multiple victory points or map rooms.

So If you have a feild layout, there would be the feild, a larger distanced city(with A VH nearby and manned AA) (victory point#1) Now maybe on the other side of the feild you could have your ammo depot or weapon stores. This would be a smaller city, as well as housing some of the "strat" ordinance.(also with a Vehicle spawn, and manned aaa) (victory point #2)

And now on the feild you have a  maproom, or coincide this with the control tower. (Victory point #3)

So Lets say country "A" is being attacked - They can use the Cities VH and The ord depot city VH as defense as well as the main VH on the Feild.

Now IF country "B" successfully kills all the buildings in the city and captures the larger town - they can now use GVs to start attack on the smaller city(ord depot) and or feild.

Say if a country captures the "ord depot", then ordinance on the feild would not get resupllied, and eventually run out.

Then for "official capture" You would have to get troops on the feild at the airfeild for the capture of the airbase.


With the distance of the towns, the toughening of the buildings
and increasing the number of troops needed for a capture (say 40 for large city, 20 for ammo depot, and 30 for feild) - I imagine you would see some good action and a good fight.

LOTS for ground vehicles to do, lots for aircraft to do. Would definatly tie the gound war together with air support if there was intense GV fighting all around a 5 mile radius of a base

[Muddie]

I'd have thought two Me110s could do a pretty good job on a smallish/mediumish town in about 5 to 10 minutes in R/L, unless of course some friendly zoomies showed up to spoil the party.

Originally posted by DoKGonZo


Anyway ... moving towns further away. As it stands, 2 Me110G's can take down a city in under 5 minutes. Moving the city further away only makes this easier. You'd need to harden the buildings a lot for this to make a difference - but if you do that, then there's really no need to move the city.


    -DoK

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Provided this thread continues in the current direction , no thread has been more important, or more deserving to take the record for longest thread.

There have been some OUTSTANDING ideas and theories in this thread that are a great sign of the potential of the community.

If the community can take some of this stuff and run with it, with help from HTC, the future is bright indeed.

We could all be very happy, and some putz named Hitech could be rich enough to have his own real warbird.

[SlapShot]

You can do all you want to try to improve the "team" play concept, but if the team players DON'T want to play together, then nothing you do can force them to and you still haven't accomplished anything. You say ... "Well thats their tough luck". Well, we already have a gameplay concept (very simplistic) and disorganization still runs rampant and there is still an imbalance, so making the gameplay concept more complex would hardly solve the problem IMO.

The objective in baseball has been in existence for quite some time, and there is really nothing more that could be done "gameplay"-wise to improve the game.

You can buy all the greatest baseball players in the world to field a team, and if they don't get along or play together correctly, they will never be winners (except for the NY Yankees ... ).

I still like the idea (Dok/HT) where captured bases (a certain radius from HQ) will have the disabled planes if there is an imbalance.

Now to take that one step further, as the captured bases (front line) moves further out out from HQ, bases that were disabled, which WERE front-line bases now become enabled. The net of it is ... only front-line captured base are disabled. So those that want to take the disabled planes, still can, but further back from the immediate action.

[Muddie]

What is the record anyway?   Been wondering about that for the past couple of days.

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Provided this thread continues in the current direction , no thread has been more important, or more deserving to take the record for longest thread.

There have been some OUTSTANDING ideas and theories in this thread that are a great sign of the potential of the community.

If the community can take some of this stuff and run with it, with help from HTC, the future is bright indeed.

We could all be very happy, and some putz named Hitech could be rich enough to have his own real warbird.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Muddie
What is the record anyway?   Been wondering about that for the past couple of days.

I think it is 2007, set yesterday in the infamous Voss thread. Hitech got the last word and locked it, yesterday afternoon.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Muddie
I'd have thought two Me110s could do a pretty good job on a smallish/mediumish town in about 5 to 10 minutes in R/L, unless of course some friendly zoomies showed up to spoil the party.

More likely to set it ablaze that actually demolish buildings.

We're talking about 2 planes shooting down a village in 5 minutes. Since some of the buildings appear to be multi-level structures, lets assume they are brick and mortar. 20mm cannon will blow some holes in that, but certainly not collapse the structure with only 50 or so rounds.

[Skeksis]

Originally posted by hitech
BTW Doc had a proposal to eliminate suicide runs, went over like a lead ballon. It was a delayed kill on the targetes, somthing like 20 secs. Then you had to be still living after the delay for the target to be damaged.

HiTech

I hate to sound any stupider than I already do but was this really a problem?  



I thought that the whole point to AH was to survive whatever it was that you were doing.

No, I am not about to go out and start suiciding, trying to get in, get a kill, get out (or some times get in, mix it up and get out) is my goal.  I am just astounded that people were using suicide runs to accomplish anything.

Skeksis

[Alpo]

Originally posted by hitech
BTW Doc had a proposal to eliminate suicide runs, went over like a lead ballon. It was a delayed kill on the targetes, somthing like 20 secs. Then you had to be still living after the delay for the target to be damaged.

HiTech

From a dive bombing fighter perspective, I like it... 20 seconds might be extreme though.  I hate watching the dweeb porkers pile straight in behind the 1000lb egg they just dropped.

From a level bomber perspective, I hate it... simply surviving to bomb drop (unless you are a 20K+ bombing fan) is usually tough enough.

How would this apply to killing GVs, etc.?

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Skeksis
I hate to sound any stupider than I already do but was this really a problem?  



I thought that the whole point to AH was to survive whatever it was that you were doing.

No, I am not about to go out and start suiciding, trying to get in, get a kill, get out (or some times get in, mix it up and get out) is my goal.  I am just astounded that people were using suicide runs to accomplish anything.

Skeksis

Well, even if people didn't gripe there is a problem with this beyond the obvious. And that is that there are already enough people who climb their 51D to 20K with a bomb, make one insane pass on a base to drop it, and then run away at warp 50. Such a rule would further encourage this kind of thing - almost rewards it.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by SlapShot
You can do all you want to try to improve the "team" play concept, but if the team players DON'T want to play together, then nothing you do can force them to and you still haven't accomplished anything. You say ... "Well thats their tough luck". Well, we already have a gameplay concept (very simplistic) and disorganization still runs rampant and there is still an imbalance, so making the gameplay concept more complex would hardly solve the problem IMO.

The objective in baseball has been in existence for quite some time, and there is really nothing more that could be done "gameplay"-wise to improve the game.

You can buy all the greatest baseball players in the world to field a team, and if they don't get along or play together correctly, they will never be winners (except for the NY Yankees ... ).

I still like the idea (Dok/HT) where captured bases (a certain radius from HQ) will have the disabled planes if there is an imbalance.

Now to take that one step further, as the captured bases (front line) moves further out out from HQ, bases that were disabled, which WERE front-line bases now become enabled. The net of it is ... only front-line captured base are disabled. So those that want to take the disabled planes, still can, but further back from the immediate action.

The idea is not to make it more complex for the player, but actually to make a lot of it simpler, as with Dok's mission suggestion. He was looking at making creation of missions simple and easy, and I was looking at adding incentives for creating them and joining them, so people would WANT to do it.

You are EXACTLY RIGHT, you can't MAKE people do anything they don't WANT to do. Trying to force them to do something they DON'T want to do will only alienate them and force them out completely. You can only give them the incentives to do what you think you want them to do and hope it works and you are correct in going in that direction.

The complexity of the suggestions so far falls mostly on the HTC end, for better or worse. It would unfortunately increase their workload and the complexity of the game itself, but not TOO MUCH for the player, other than the varying degre of hardness of bases and the varying number of troops required for captures. They would have to look at a menu or two to see how difficult their objective is to take.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Well, even if people didn't gripe there is a problem with this beyond the obvious. And that is that there are already enough people who climb their 51D to 20K with a bomb, make one insane pass on a base to drop it, and then run away at warp 50. Such a rule would further encourage this kind of thing - almost rewards it.

Well, as it is now, they are already rewarded whether they survive or not. Forcing them to survive to score would at least force them to shift their efforts more towards survival, meaning coming in faster and higher, avoiding augering, and getting away. This means there is less focus on accuracy, they have to drop from higher altitudes and faster speeds to assure surviving or the hit does not matter anyway. Might cut down on their success at hitting, even if it does increase their success at surviving and escaping. that might be a better alternative to the current situation.

I do however see your point. It would probably make the high speed high altitude porker a more exclusive and dedicated group, with individuals who are more likely to succeed. It might however, cut down on the use of the tactic as a substitute for any talent or skill at all.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Alpo
From a dive bombing fighter perspective, I like it... 20 seconds might be extreme though.  I hate watching the dweeb porkers pile straight in behind the 1000lb egg they just dropped.

From a level bomber perspective, I hate it... simply surviving to bomb drop (unless you are a 20K+ bombing fan) is usually tough enough.

How would this apply to killing GVs, etc.?

I would hope that it would not apply to killing GV's other than preventing you from making a kamakaze attack on them. Perhaps the survival time could possibly be different for objects and enemies.

I don't think 20 seconds is too long, but maybe too short.

Regarding the level bomber problem, I think it would, and should, force the level bombers to secure more escorts, and to bomb from more realistic altitudes. I think heavy bombers coming in at 200 feet is a little much, never mind heavy bombers used as dive bombers. I do realize there were special cases of very low level heavy bombers being used but like Ploesti, it had a high cost and limited success. As it should be here. meduim bombers and attack bombers are another matter entirely, but they should still not expect to attack and survive at very low levels with little or no escort.

And the object should always be to survive, at least for long enough to make an interesting fight of it.