Author Topic: The Camp of the La7 (Read 5323 times)

Zazen13 · « **Reply #90 on:** September 03, 2004, 11:20:35 AM »

I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said, "If the La7 pilot is good I am usually dead, fortunately not many are very good". In alot of ways the La7 is a victim of its own success and those like Shane who popularize it via their individual success in it.

I am one of those who typically kills 30 La7s to one death by La7s a camp. Don't confuse this with the La7 not being 'uber' , it's simply a by-product of the fact that most people who fly the La7 couldn't find their arse with both hands. I actually have more trouble with planes like the Fw190-A5 because typically the person flying that plane is a good stick who knows how to exploit the planes strengths to their maximum advantage. If everyone who flew the La7 were 'good sticks' who knew how to exploit the plane's strengths to their maximum advantage I think everyone in this thread would suddenly, like Urchin, have a 'problem' with the La7.

Any plane is formidable if flown to it's maximum potential, that is not debateable. The problem with the La7 is it occupies and dominates a niche where the vast majority of fights occur. Because of its overwhelming strengths, those few people who do fly it to maximum advantage are nearly unbeatable. Those who only have the skill and the know-how to fully exploit a couple of it's dominant traits are a serious PITA, and can give a generally superior pilot serious problems. Even a weak pilot who only takes advantage of one of it's strengths (ie: Runs and Ho's repeatedly) is incredibly annoying.

All of this can be said for most planes to some extent, but because of the plurality and degree of the La7s strengths and the under 12k niche it occupies and dominates in these areas it is by far the most diverse and threatening aircraft to the most amount of people.

Zazen

Karnak · « **Reply #91 on:** September 03, 2004, 11:35:35 AM »

mars01,

I thought I'd seen more than one person in this thread post their stats vs the La-7.

I don't fly much anymore. Last Tour I had 72 kills and 40 deaths. I went 3 to 3 against the La-7.

Zazen,

I think you'll find that your ratio is highly dependant on what you fly.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #92 on:** September 03, 2004, 11:43:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Zazen,

I think you'll find that your ratio is highly dependant on what you fly.

Possibly, I really only fly 4 planes though: F6F, P51D, Typhoon, and P47D-40. All of these planes are out-run, out-accelerated and out-climbed by the La7, 3 of them are outgunned by the La7 and at least 2 of them can be out-turned by the La7 (not the F6F or P51D in my personal experience).

Zazen

jodgi · « **Reply #93 on:** September 03, 2004, 11:53:37 AM »

Zazen, I agree fully. Very well put.

mars01, don't credit yourself as the only one who has ever not bragged by bragging....... crap! There goes another one of my precious few braincells.

Halo · « **Reply #94 on:** September 03, 2004, 11:57:22 AM »

Kudos to Aces High for bringing us the Russian and Italian fighters that many flight sims used to ignore.

Karnak · « **Reply #95 on:** September 03, 2004, 12:31:13 PM »

Zazen,

All four of those aircraft are competitive with the La-7 in one way or another. If you are a decent stick you'll be able to overcome the La-7 simply by out flying your typical opponent.

If you liked the Bf110G-2, Bf109G-6, Mosquito Mk VI or Ki-61-I-Tei on the other hand the La-7 will pretty much dominate you unless you are significantly better. The La-7 doesn't out turn those fighters by only a small margin and it has a massive advantage in speed and acceleration.

I'm hoping the Ki-84 will do the same as the P-51D against the La-7, but with better acceleration.

TBolt A-10 · « **Reply #96 on:** September 03, 2004, 12:32:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Every 109/190, out turned by La7/ outrun by La7. Except the E-4, that might be able to out-turn it. Haven't tried it in AH2.

P-47.. not even close. Easily out turned and outrun.

P-51. Outrun, see F4U for "out turned".

So, if you fly something not on that list, you probably don't have a problem with the La-7. If you do, you understand that the La-7 pretty much renders your plane impotent.

Exactly why I'm in the camp that the La-7 should cost its pilots some perks. There are a lot of La-7's out there; can't outrun them, can't outturn them. And, I don't intend to become an La-7 driver just so I can have a level playing field.

Furious · « **Reply #97 on:** September 03, 2004, 12:38:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
I always attack the Lala's first...

Not me. I go for the p-40's first, because you know that ****ers just showing off.

mars01 · « **Reply #98 on:** September 03, 2004, 12:42:51 PM »

Quote

mars01, don't credit yourself as the only one who has ever not bragged by bragging....... crap! There goes another one of my precious few braincells.

LOL, cmon man my stats are average at best, nothing to brag about. IMO I didn't even go 500 against the LA7.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #99 on:** September 03, 2004, 12:56:43 PM »

Oh so that's why I always get ganged when in a P40...

phookat · « **Reply #100 on:** September 03, 2004, 01:04:16 PM »

Saw a guy TnB-ing an SBD the other day. Showoff.

Widewing · « **Reply #101 on:** September 03, 2004, 01:42:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak

And the La-7 is better than the P-51D up to at least 15k and maybe 20k.

Whadda ya kiddin'?

At 15k, and especially at 20k, the P-51D climbs about the same (much better at 20K), is considerably faster and handles better as well.

Then we have the P-51B, and that Mustang absolutely owns the La-7 up at 15k....

Speed @ 15k

La-7: 388 mph
P-51D: 412 mph
P-51B: 421 mph
Yak-9U: 410 mph

Climb @ 15k

La-7: 2,850 fpm
P-51D: 2,800 fpm
P-51B: 3,250 fpm
Yak-9U: 2,975 fpm

Little improvement is gained by the La-7 if it is down to 50% fuel. However, both Mustangs DO improve if their fuel weight is less than 50%. At 15k, the P-51B is just about the best non-perked fighter in the game in terms of overall performance. In fact, it's neck and neck with the SpitXIV and F4U-4 at 15k and is easier to fly at the limits than either of those two. Yep, the P-51B is grossly underated...

Keep the Russian crotch-rocket down in the weeds where it belongs. Take it up high and it's very average. If you want to fly and fight at 15-20k in a Russian fighter, take the Yak-9U, it performs considerably better than the La-7 up there, but still falls short of the P-51B.

My regards,

Widewing

Karnak · « **Reply #102 on:** September 03, 2004, 02:17:22 PM »

Widewing,

I was being overly generous to the La-7 to counter all the "The La-7 sucks at altitudes over 10,000ft." statements that are so prevalent. The La-7 doesn't dominate at higher altitudes like it does down low, but it certainly doesn't suck either.

Maybe I am biased because I like mid war aircraft, but hearing people make that claim makes me think of them as spoiled in their expectations.

dedalos · « **Reply #103 on:** September 03, 2004, 02:41:52 PM »

I used to fly it alot as a noob but have not been in it for a while. Tried it again last night.

If you know what you are doing, there is no way you get shot down. It got to the point where I was teasing an F4F trying to get pinged. Nothing he could do and I am just average. Imagine if anyone good gets in it, lol. (I did know the plane though since I used to fly it a lot. I am sure that helped)

Widewing · « **Reply #104 on:** September 03, 2004, 03:21:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Widewing,

I was being overly generous to the La-7 to counter all the "The La-7 sucks at altitudes over 10,000ft." statements that are so prevalent. The La-7 doesn't dominate at higher altitudes like it does down low, but it certainly doesn't suck either.

Maybe I am biased because I like mid war aircraft, but hearing people make that claim makes me think of them as spoiled in their expectations.

I understand. Down in the weeds the La-7 is the best fighter in the game, period. I also agree that the 3 gun version should be perked along the lines of the C-Hog, leaving the 2 gun model as is. After all, only a handful of the 3 gun La-7s saw service before the end of the war.

Now, as to fighting in and against the La-7, it boils down to tactics and creating opportunities.

Since December of last year, my K/D against the La-7 is 21/1. Flying the La-7, my K/D is 36/1. That's rediculous. Believe me, it's the plane far more than the pilot.

What this tells me is that the La-7 is easy to kill in and easy to survive in. It is also easy to kill the La-7 if the pilot flies too aggressively. In other words, he has more balls than brains and consequently will be carrying the former home in a Zip-Lock bag, while the latter is befuddled at his circumstances.

Keep it fast, master the guns, fly with good SA and the La-7 is nearly invincible. Fly it dumb, and it'll die just like any other aircraft. Fortunately, the fact remains that most of the guys flying the La-7, fly it dumb.

I certainly understand Urchin's point though. A decent stick flying the La-7 is as lethal as the very best stick in almost anything else.
Urchin should remember a one on one we had some months ago. It was southwest of A28 on the NDIlses map. I was up in an La-7 and had just shot down several F4Us. Down to about 20 rounds of ammo, I was heading back to rearm for the next wave. I spotted an incoming Ta 152 slightly above me (I guess I was at 8k or so). I don't remember the details, but I eventually got on the 152's tail. The 152 tried every trick in the book to shake off the pesky LaLa, but I stayed there waiting for a decent shot. The 152 was working hard to give me lousy angles and as my gas dwindled down, I took a poor angle shot and either missed or did no noteworthy damage. Having emptied my guns, I soon broke off and headed back. I gave a salute to the 152 driver and Urchin replied in kind. Now, I have flown against Urchin in the DA and he's better than I am, especially on the merge where he waxed me time and again. If I had been flying almost any other late-war plane against his 152, I would probably have lost that fight. So, I have no doubt that the La-7 makes any pilot more dangerous, significantly so in some matchups.

The key to this is if the pilot knows how to maximize the La-7's advantages and avoid getting low and slow in a crowd. If he knows how to utilize the La-7 to its potential, he'll be a son-of-buck to deal with. If he doesn't...he's usually just another dead guy. Nonetheless, fighting below 10,000 ft, a good pilot flying the La-7 is THE MOST DANGEROUS COMBINATION IN THE GAME

My regards,

Widewing