whats the best P47?

[flyingaround]

pellik, bozon, your both saying the same thing, and are both basically correct.

The REASON the p47 (or fw, or heck any plane that doesn't hold E like the spits do) will out turn spits is that it is bleeding E much faster, and slower plane, tighter turn radius.  You should out turn the spit for a round or two, but then the spit will have the tighter turn, (it DOES turn better at slower speeds), and it's time to dive away and regroup.

Now a SMART spit pilot will chop throttle, and you are doomed.  

If you are in a Jug, trying  to flat turn with a spit, your need to rethink your flying.

[pellik]

Originally posted by Urchin
20 seconds for an immelman seems like a godawful long time.

This is a 400mph immelman. The only way to beat 20sec is to cut throttle and get slower before the maneuver. 20sec is better then almost any other plane. Maybe a real energy burner like the fm2 could beat it, but I'm not sure.

For slower speed fights immels arn't quite as relevent, because pitchbacks and other immel counters give too many variables.

-pellik

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by pellik
The extra energy the f4u saved on the merge isn't enough to rope (attempting a double immel is a bad idea due to the loss in angle), and it isn't enough to make up for the poor position and maneuverability. An expert pilot would start working into a vertical scissors here, but the jug's extra speed and supperior low speed flaps will still usually give it the fight.

-pellik

the only  AH pile-it I have seen to be capable of pulling this off consistently so far has been SirLoin, I am sure there might be a few more, but I have only ran across SirLoin, that can capitalize in the Jug like pellik has described here.

[bozon]

I dont know what you call immelman, but I tested the P47D40 (50%), P51D (50%), P38L (50%), and 109G2 (100%) - from 350 mph level at a few feet, hard pull (the buzzer goes off) till nose crosses the horison on the other side, inverted. record was on and measurements were done watching the film viewer.

it's 5.5-6 sec for all of the above to preform this and using 1 notch of flaps did not seem different (not in my accuracy of measurement which is not better than 0.5 sec).

all planes were ~200 mph when crossing the horison inverted, exept perhaps for the G2 which was 210-215 mph (all planes full throttle, no WEP).

conclusion - above 350mph all planes will take about the same time to immel.

pellik, bozon, your both saying the same thing, and are both basically correct.

We were arguing turn rate. we agree about turn radius effects. Being able to pull out flaps at 400 mph has little effect on the time it takes you to reverse direction.

Now a SMART spit pilot will chop throttle, and you are doomed.

or worse, just evade the one taugh snapshot you get and now you have a spit with better E against you while you are doing 200 mph. NOW you'll really need to use those flaps...

Bozon

[TequilaChaser]

why would anyone want to do an immel at 400 mph in a Jug and start turning with a spitV or a Spit9 to begin with?  It would seem much more productive to keep your Speed and make slashing attack type passes on a more nimble plane than the one you are flying, unless you just want to see if you can outurn a spit9 with a Jug, and like the thrill from it all

going by bozon's test you are giving up 150 to 200 mph on the first rev/merge etc... that is a big sum of E to throw away on the first merge, unless it is a 1 on 1 duel with dissimilar aircraft ....just another view of it all.

[YUCCA]

because it's challenging.................. ..

[YUCCA]

usually...............

[CGAR]

Bump good read and some helpful info for jug pilots.  Any new info on the P47M's stats?

Anymore advice for these birds will be taken with arms wide open.

Thanks
CGAR

[uptown]

Wolfala is pretty hip on the M model jug. I'd talk to him when ya see him around. Maybe shoot him a PM. 

[Plazus]

IMO I think the best all around Jug would be the D25. It has excellent cockpit visibility, and has all the traits that the other Jugs have: ruggedness, firepower, speed, dive, and high speed manueverability.

[fbWldcat]

I have always stayed away from jugs but Mtnman showed me the way of the D-11 one day and it changed me... D-11 is a good bird, you just have to practice in it, it's a great jug trainer for those who want to learn it's mysterious ways.

Geez, almost 6 years old!

[uptown]

The 25 is my favorite also.  

[Tec]

The D25 is about the worst of the Jugs IMO but It's so close to the D40 to almost be moot.  The D11 is faster, the D40 climbs a little bit better, and the M eats them all for breakfast.

[CGAR]

I figured the M had the best performance of them all, but most if not all the jug threads have little to no info on how to fly them or a comparison vs the other jugs.

Has a speed/ climb chart been created on the M yet?

[Lusche]

Has a speed/ climb chart been created on the M yet?

Of course. Visit the AH scorepages for the Plane versus Plane Speed and Climb performance charts