Author Topic: No (more) guns please - we're British (Read 6666 times)

Elfie · « **Reply #45 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:20:12 PM »

Beetle you amaze me. Basically that article proves that armed response deters criminals, yet you are against the very thing that deters them......

Every state that has passed a concealed carry law here in the US has seen a reduction in violent crime. States and cities that keep making guns harder or impossible to get see crime rates go up. US Justice Dept. statistics support this.

You seem to think that the more guns that are available to law abiding citizens equates to more gun deaths. Interesting that here in the US the opposite is true.

Elfie · « **Reply #46 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:21:54 PM »

Mugged for your gun Beetle?

If I was carrying a gun, and you tryed to mug me, dont you think you run a very high risk of being shot?

Elfie · « **Reply #47 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:27:46 PM »

One last thought, then I am out of this thread.

There has always been crime, there will always be crime. Police can't be everywhere all the time. Imo, each and every human being has the right to defend themselves against those that would make us victims. A club doesnt do much to deter criminals when the criminals have firearms.

There will also always be firearms, whether they are made in a factory or in someone's basement, whether they are sold in a store or on the black market.

Toad · « **Reply #48 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:34:58 PM »

There's absolutely no handgun crime in England.

Don't you guys realize that they made hanguns illegal in England? What more proof do you need?

vorticon · « **Reply #49 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:40:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Mugged for your gun Beetle?

If I was carrying a gun, and you tryed to mug me, dont you think you run a very high risk of being shot?

if the mugger gives you a chance to pull your gun, he's not that good at mugging, now is he?

lazs2 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:40:42 PM »

aren't you afraid that the cops will get mugged and have their guns taken away.?

lazs

vorticon · « **Reply #51 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:44:56 PM »

last word before i leave, since your all fully aware of my stance on gun control.

700 years ago, everyone carried a sword and could use it. crime still happened. all arming the populace did was make criminals more carefull about who and how they worked. if you arm everyone to the teeth, youll just see criminals commiting different crimes that are less likely to get them shot (for example, it takes less than 30 seconds to steal a car, and can take as little as 5 minutes to rob a house.)

Mini D · « **Reply #52 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:47:25 PM »

I find it funny that beetle has posted an "article" that in no way/shape/form supports his fundamental anti-gun argument. The only help he seems to be getting on the subject was someone claiming the numbers in the article seemed to be wrong.

Lazs, you should be ashamed of yourself here. You've dominated this debate to the point that your "opponents" have turned into senseless baffoons. Well... maybe "turned into" is the wrong way to put it.

Nashwan · « **Reply #53 on:** October 18, 2004, 05:23:45 PM »

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The only help he seems to be getting on the subject was someone claiming the numbers in the article seemed to be wrong.

You seem to be the only one who noticed that.

What I find funny is some Americans claiming Britain's 68 gun murders last year prove gun control doesn't work, but America's 10,000 gun murders a year prove more guns = less crime.

vorticon · « **Reply #54 on:** October 18, 2004, 05:25:47 PM »

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Originally posted by Nashwan
You seem to be the only one who noticed that.

What I find funny is some Americans claiming Britain's 68 gun murders last year prove gun control doesn't work, but America's 10,000 gun murders a year prove more guns = less crime.

have you adjusted for population?

beet1e · « **Reply #55 on:** October 18, 2004, 06:59:24 PM »

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Originally posted by Elfie
You seem to think that the more guns that are available to law abiding citizens equates to more gun deaths. Interesting that here in the US the opposite is true.

I wasn't talking about the US. The article I posted is about Britain. I think I mentioned that in the thread title?

We don't have the insane situation whereby anyone can have a gun for no better a reason than the fact that he wants one. Read Nashwan's comment from 11:23pm. Your country has more than 100 times as many gun homicides as we do, but your population is only about 4½ times the size of ours. I think that speaks for itself. But just in case you still don't get it, let me spell it out: It's because of our gun control laws, imperfect though things may be, that we still have fewer than 100 gun related homicides annually. And it's because you guys allow so many guns into circulation that you have 10,000 gun related homicides annually.

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If I was carrying a gun, and you tryed to mug me, dont you think you run a very high risk of being shot?

OK, consider this. The British police are routinely unarmed. And yet very few are killed in the line of duty. In 2003, only one was shot and killed (by an American fugitive of Florida justice). And yet, despite being heavily armed with all manner of guns, pepper sprays, tasers, the works - around 70 US police officers are killed in the line of duty every year. Go figure. And remember - these were trained guys. I rather think that the average gun toting civilian would be a somewhat softer target.

Elfie says he's gone, but I bet he comes back for more.

Steve · « **Reply #56 on:** October 19, 2004, 02:30:44 AM »

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True... it's mostly poor depressed neighborhoods; which is where minorities happen to live

ROFL. Where is MT now? the above is the most stereotypical/racist remark in this thread.

SC-Sp00k · « **Reply #57 on:** October 19, 2004, 02:38:39 AM »

Arming Police, I agree with. Arming the population? Well thats idiocy. (no further comment needed).

Police have a duty of care to protect life. There are disciplines and penalties that exceed simple firearms training in place to act as a checkfire in the "majority of instances"

There is no arguement that sometimes, its the Police officers who have gotten the use of deadly force wrong. They are after all, only human and prone to the same emotional and conditional responses as with us all. They do however have a high level of training in not only firearms but in other use of force options including conflict de-escalation.

Much of this training is neither present or deemed necessary in a countries population.

Escalate force and it will be met with the escalation of force. The crucial element missing from Joe Citizen, is proper training and the checks sum penalties in place to prevent the unnecessary use of force.

Prison alone doesnt work. Otherwise they would be empty of supposed innocents. Emotions control an individuals actions.
True not many would want (hopefully) to use a firearm on another person, but it could be said that not many would not know how to avoid using one either.

Criminals accept that they will be opposed by a Police force. They accept that force will be met with force. They do not accept being met with force by the population. They simply seek bigger and better to escalate an already impossibly out of control population as you now have in the United States.

There is no convincing many of you as you have known nothing else and the convience of your constitution gives you the protection to hide blissfully unaware and adamant, behind.

Steve · « **Reply #58 on:** October 19, 2004, 02:43:18 AM »

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They simply seek bigger and better to escalate an already impossibly out of control population as you now have in the United States.

Oh my!! out of control???? I better close my windows and take the keys out of the two vehicles I have in the driveway, board my windows. Oh nooo!!!!! Out of control!!!!

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #59 on:** October 19, 2004, 03:02:19 AM »

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Originally posted by Steve
Oh my!! out of control???? I better close my windows and take the keys out of the two vehicles I have in the driveway, board my windows. Oh nooo!!!!! Out of control!!!!

Why would you leave your keys in the car, even in a safe neigborhood??