Author Topic: No (more) guns please - we're British (Read 6529 times)

beet1e · « **Reply #75 on:** October 19, 2004, 11:35:59 AM »

I think Nashwan has covered the stats. Gun crimes are up, but the report says that a crime is sometimes committed even if a gun is not fired - eg. used to threaten - that is still a gun crime.

I have seen folks point to "a 20% increase in Britain's gun homicides since the 1997 ban" (not in this particular thread, but in one of the many others) and seize upon this in a limpwristed attempt to make a "point" and citing it as a "trend", when in fact all we have seen is year on year fluctuations - an increase from 50 to 60, for example. However bad Britain's gun crime record is right now, it's still minute when compared to the US, and is much too small for an adequate level of sampling data to be available to determine a trend.

And as Nashwan points out, you can slice it, dice it, splice it, spin it, but whichever way you cut it, 147 times as many people were victims of firearms homicide in the US as here.

But this is off topic! My original point in this thread was to express my observation that the more guns we have in Britain, the more gun crime we'll have. No need to examine the relationship in any more depth.

We can already see what happens to the homicide rate when a country is flooded with guns. Well, at least some of us can. I guess others never will.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #76 on:** October 19, 2004, 11:39:55 AM »

Man, I can't wait till I can strap on the full size 1911 in a shoulder harnass.

Zippatuh · « **Reply #77 on:** October 19, 2004, 01:32:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
ROFL. Where is MT now? the above is the most stereotypical/racist remark in this thread.

Racist? Racist to state facts? A majority of minorities do live in poor neighborhoods.

Climb down off the PC ladder...

Toad · « **Reply #78 on:** October 19, 2004, 02:37:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
you can slice it, dice it, splice it, spin it, but whichever way you cut it,

...the English ban on handguns didn't do much of anything at all. It was just another member-stroking feel-good political BS move.

You're welcome. Glad to explain it for ya.

lazs2 · « **Reply #79 on:** October 19, 2004, 02:41:41 PM »

ok guys... sure it's fun kicking the crap outa the uptight anti gun nuts and I'm as guilty as the rest but....

they are sick individuals that need your sympathy in order to recover... you are just pushing them deeper into their shells.

lazs

SC-Sp00k · « **Reply #80 on:** October 19, 2004, 04:11:46 PM »

Mav. Theres a difference that even you must see without my having to explain it.

You said it. Your an ex-cop. Therefore you have the training im talking about which as you must know, encompasses far more than sequence of firing shots, yada yada yada. You have training in the package that deals with conflict resolution by means of deadly force or not.

Your civvie friends as a whole do not.

Its not about trust. Its about training.

You can still be joe citizen and be a member of a licenced gun club which teaches discipline. You just shouldnt have the dam* thing at home or in your car.

If its so safe over there. Why do you feel the need to carry them?
There is only 1 answer no matter which way, Laz and his NRA mates put a spin on it.

You are afraid of the very population that you place on a pedestal.

Im not anti- US citizen. In fact im very Pro- US. Neither am I some bleeding heart liberal. Im just calling it as I and many others see it.

I know despite the majority of the public here no longer having firearms without legal reason to do so, that I feel much safer here than I would living in your 10 year old Uzi toting country.

No, I dont think the US is like that as a generalisation. But you do have some whacked out areas in the states that are a direct result of your Gun policy.

Heh, Id love to visit one day. In fact I will. But cop or not, training or not. Ill be keeping the eyes in the back of my head open in some parts of your fine country.

If you ever break this constitutional catch 22 you guys have developed, you will find that I and others speak the truth. You dont need them and as long as you do have them, your a bigger danger to yourselves than from anyone on the outside.

Dowding · « **Reply #81 on:** October 19, 2004, 05:14:36 PM »

Quote

It's really ok by me if you folks in UK don't want any guns but you probably shouldn't expect us to watch your borders and prevent smuggling. It's even ok if you think we in the US or the rest of the world should follow suit. You can even expect us to take you seriously. Give up your guns all you want, no problem, try to take our guns though and there will be trouble.

You really are one for over-blown, tired old rhetoric. Nashwan refutes the 'facts' of that article and you break out the Charlton Heston impersonation. Lame. I'm not entirely sure how the two are connected.

Here's a few pointers. Firstly, drop the "our armed populace is covering your asses" nonsense. I'm not even sure you know what you are trying to say there, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And secondly, your paranoid assumptions that anyone in Britain would want to take away your guns is inane at best.

"The UN is coming! The UN is coming! Go get your six shooter!"

Oh pur-leeze.

Mini D · « **Reply #82 on:** October 19, 2004, 05:31:38 PM »

LOL! gotcha nashwan... but you do still realize your not really defending what beetle was saying, but resorting to an entirely different argument because the article beetle was posting to support his statements was wrong... right?

Of course, you're both just rambling away anyways. I still find that incredibly funny.

And lazs.. .give up on spook. He firmly believes he should be entitled to a gun AND be able to decide that everyone else isn't. It reminds me of that police chief and mayor in california.

lazs2 · « **Reply #83 on:** October 19, 2004, 05:55:59 PM »

mini, of course but I think his attitude is generally where Americans and UK subjects differ so much... they feel that only a few elite should have privlidges since the common man is incapable of making the simplest deciisions whereas Americans feel all men are equal and should be treated as such under the law.

spook is full of how he "feels" and "common sense" and his own self worth but in this case at least ....

the facts make him into a buffon... and rightly so.... the 10 million or so concealled carry citizens in this country have been nothing but an asset... they are perhaps the most law abiding and careful group in the nation... they have less accidents and unlawful shoots than the cops (who I respect greatly).

I would say to spook or any man here who thinks that the vast majority of citizens of any country are too stupid or too clumsy or too crazy to be capable of owning and safely handling firearms.... I would say to them that your countrymen are every bit as capable of taking care of themselves and handling guns as American concealled carry citizens have proven to be....

I could take any random selection of their countries citizens and within a very short time turn them into safe gun handlers and assets to their countries.

spook... what is it about australians that you feel makes them so inferior to Americans?

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #84 on:** October 19, 2004, 06:00:42 PM »

and spook... how much time have you spent here in America and where (it's a big place)?

when you were here how many 10 year olds did you run into with fully automatic uzi's and how did you survive?

I bet that I could find a dozen American women who were better shots than you, had better safe gun handling and had fired more rounds than you.

I bet If we trained 100 of your countrymen with you included you would only finish somewher in the middle.... hardly elite.
lazs

Thrawn · « **Reply #85 on:** October 19, 2004, 06:04:57 PM »

So 10,000 Americans are murdered a year with firearms. They obviously know this and think it's worth it in order to maintain thier 2nd amendment rights.

So what's the problem?

AKIron · « **Reply #86 on:** October 19, 2004, 08:25:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
You really are one for over-blown, tired old rhetoric. Nashwan refutes the 'facts' of that article and you break out the Charlton Heston impersonation. Lame. I'm not entirely sure how the two are connected.

Here's a few pointers. Firstly, drop the "our armed populace is covering your asses" nonsense. I'm not even sure you know what you are trying to say there, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And secondly, your paranoid assumptions that anyone in Britain would want to take away your guns is inane at best.

"The UN is coming! The UN is coming! Go get your six shooter!"

Oh pur-leeze.

Huh?

Go ahead and give away your guns, I don't give a rats ass. When you brits stop going on and on about our guns I'll stop with the "tired old rhetoric". Deal?

Suave · « **Reply #87 on:** October 19, 2004, 08:48:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
So 10,000 Americans are murdered a year with firearms. They obviously know this and think it's worth it in order to maintain thier 2nd amendment rights.

So what's the problem?

We value our freedom more than our life. It's that simple.

DrDea · « **Reply #88 on:** October 19, 2004, 08:49:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by deSelys
Maverick,

uring a simple exercise, I had had a bad case of tunnel vision. It was a real eye opener (btw I missed the thug . Had I reacted like this in RL I would have just caused a shootout in a crowded place).

Sounds to me that you fit the "75%" group just fine till you were trained diffrently.

Maverick · « **Reply #89 on:** October 19, 2004, 10:07:23 PM »

Spook,

It seems you know so much more about America and how safe it is here and hell I am a native of 51 years here. Who woulda thought I was so mistaken.

I have never seen an uzi toting 10 year old. I do know a few who have uzi's and none of them are less than 40.

Your elitist bit about the training is a bit of a crock as well. Quite a few "civies" I know handle their weapons with more care than the Officers I shared a locker room with in the station but you know more than I about that as well I suppose.

If you will feel so unsafe coming to the states I'd suggest you stay home. Your paranoia might be catching and make some of the natives here restless. You obviously know so much about the country you have no need to see how it really is.

BTW since retiring over 10 years, I have long since stopped carrying. Oh and BTW, as a full time RV'er I see quite a bit of the states in my travels. As a matter of fact I'm in the 21'st state we have visited since last June. Haven't seen a single uzi toting 10 year old in any of them. Those states range from the west to the far north east and down in the deep south. Right now I'm only 80 miles from the gulf coast in Louisianna.

But please tell me more how I'm scared to be here without my firearm and in so much danger. I could use another laugh.