Author Topic: Perk the LA-7 (Read 3769 times)

humble · « **Reply #45 on:** November 11, 2004, 01:38:35 PM »

The question is how much of a difference does a particular machine make and I'd argue that the La-7 makes a huge difference

And thats exactly where the problem is....

The question of pilot or plane is a binary, the caliber of the pilot overrides the capabilities of the plane. Only when relative pilot skill is within a very narrow parameter (lets say 10%) does the plane type matter. Now in a large enviornment like the MA where you have multiple encounters and multiple cons then an individual planes capabilities come into play. The lala will give a much greater range of options than the Ki-61 will in a complex enviornment...management of that enviornment (SA) is more critical in the "lesser" plane. However in a 1 vs 1 encounter no single has greater impact then pilot skill.

I'm simply tring to give you the same basic information I gave any baby seal as a trainer long ago... You pick your plane, tell me mine grab 5k and come kill me...in fact I wont even break till your inside of ~900 on my view...an hour and a dozen or two shot up planes and they were ready to begin to learn what the game is all about.

I wish you nothing but the best, both in the game and life in general. In both the person who empowers themselfs prevails.

humble · « **Reply #46 on:** November 11, 2004, 01:39:48 PM »

To argue that different tools do not change the ease or difficulty of the task is sheer idiocy and that is what your continued chant of "the plane doesnt kill ya...the pilot does." seems to indicate you think

I don't "think it" I know it for a fact....

Karnak · « **Reply #47 on:** November 11, 2004, 02:05:22 PM »

If you think killing in the MA is just as easy with a Hurri I as it is with an La-7 you're in denial of basic reality.

That is absolutely blindingly obvious.

However that is not the same as saying that the Hurri I cannot kill the La-7 as it obviously can.

If you really think that all planes are equal you're nuts. If that were the case, why waste all that effort on building newer and better fighters?

SunKing · « **Reply #48 on:** November 11, 2004, 02:05:31 PM »

There's no need to perk the La7. The majority that fly it are the new pilots that choose it only becuase its fast and they think that will survive them. Those pilots are no threat 2 vs 1 or 1 vs 1 because they only know how to fly in straight lines. Its that 10% that know what their doing you have to be aware of. Having played AH a long time if flying into a furball/horde I usually go after the La7 1st knowing it will be an easier quick kill than that guy in the turn n burn early war fightr.

Zanth · « **Reply #49 on:** November 11, 2004, 02:06:09 PM »

LA7 should not be perked - HOWEVER the 3 gun loadout should be (It was very rare!) Although the La-7 was initially designed with the three-cannon arrangement, only about 368 were delivered in this configuration, compared with more than 3000 two-cannon La-7's delivered.

Urchin · « **Reply #50 on:** November 11, 2004, 02:48:13 PM »

I really do think it is amusing. Here are my break-downs of what your average pilot thinks about the "plane-pilot" equation, along with my personal perspective on why I think that.

Newb pilot - All plane. Reason being said newb ups, gets his bellybutton handed to em 4 or 5 times, then switches to whatever plane has been handing him his ass, expecting it to make a difference.

Borderline Newb - Has realized that pilot plays some role in the equation, because the same guys always seem to hand him his bellybutton even if they are in the same plane. So probably 50-50 pilot plane.

Average pilot - Can kill baby seals in whatever plane he wants to, therefore leading him to think that the pilot is more important than the plane. Call it 75-25.

Good pilot - Can usually kill average pilots in whatever plane, usually loses to "great" pilots in whatever plane. Call it about 90-10.

"Great" pilot - Has found a plane that he is very comfortable flying, can usually kill anyone, unless they run into co-skilled pilot in ... a better plane. Call it back to about 50-50.

Honest pilot.. (me) call it 10-90 plane/pilot. Now matter how "great" you are, you can't make a plane do something it can't do.

Most of the self-proclaimed "great" pilots fly extraordinarily fast planes (1945, as a general rule), and tend to run at the first sign of trouble.

Karnak, you've got it right in my opinion. Anyone who can't see what a complete and total performance advantage the La-7 gives even the most pathetic newb of a seal pup target is blind, or deluded.

By the way Humble... if I took you up on your offer.. I'd take the La-7 and kill you in anything if I had a 5k alt advantage to start.

It is the plane, not the pilot.

humble · « **Reply #51 on:** November 11, 2004, 03:45:06 PM »

Honest pilot.. (me) call it 10-90 plane/pilot. Now matter how "great" you are, you can't make a plane do something it can't do

Sorry you give yourself so little credit, imagine if every german pilot felt like you did in late 44...

As for you me and the lala....I'm pretty easy to find. I get bounced alot by all kinds of stuff and I cant think of more than a few times a tour where I felt the plane made the difference....and normally its a high zeke or hurricane...never a lala...I dont care if you have 2k 10k or 15k...none of it matters till ya get ~400 out on my 6 and stay there. If we're close enough in skill to be in that "draw" range then the plane comes into play. Now if you want to prove your theory...go ask shane in his D11/Drex in his F6 or Levi in
his spit V.

I'd say I lose about ~15% of my 1 vs 1's in the MA....almost never the plane...almost always the pilot.

Urchin · « **Reply #52 on:** November 11, 2004, 03:49:25 PM »

Oh, I don't give myself so little credit, I'm just honest. If I'm in a 190A-8 and fighting an La-7 and the guy basically knows what his plane can do and my plane can do, I'm going to die. It doesn't matter how well I fly the 190A-8, I'm not going to kill someone who knows how to fly an La-7.

You are just still in the stage where you are giving yourself to much credit

.

dedalos · « **Reply #53 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:21:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin

It is the plane, not the pilot.

My last tour

Typhoon 13 LA7 0
N1K2 4 LA7 0
Hurricane IIC 5 LA7 2

I would have more examples but I have this bad habit of upping from capped fields.

Urchin · « **Reply #54 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:30:17 PM »

Congratulations. The Tiff is about 5 mph slower than the La7, turns about as well, and has Hizookas. The Niki is quite capable of going to a draw with the La7, as it turns better and climbs almost as well, and the Hurri C also turns better and mounts Hizookas..

Besides which, the plane/pilot aren't the only two parts of the equation... there is also numbers. If you tend to fly in situations where there are always more friendlies than enemies, most every plane is good enough to kill in. Even I could probably kill an La7 in a 190A8 if it was busy fighting 3 other planes when I dove in.

Karnak · « **Reply #55 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:38:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
My last tour

Typhoon 13 LA7 0
N1K2 4 LA7 0
Hurricane IIC 5 LA7 2

I would have more examples but I have this bad habit of upping from capped fields.

And none of that means anything.

You guys just don't get that your personal stats against the La-7 don't have any reflection on the relative qualities of the aircraft in question.

I'm pretty sure I have an overall positive K/D ratio over the La-7 while flying the Mosquito in AH. Is this, then, evidence that the Mosquito is a better fighter than the La-7?

Of course not. It simply means that I was able to kill more La-7s than were able to kill me. It says nothing about how those kills were obtained. The fact is that, barring HOs, I only won a total of four fights against co-E or better La-7s while flying the Mosquito. All my other kills were fained by using altitude or hitting distracted La-7s.

I sure as heck know that my lethality changes based on what I am flying.

humble · « **Reply #56 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:41:07 PM »

You are just still in the stage where you are giving yourself to much credit

Actually I give myself exactly the credit I deserve....

I passed the stage your at a long time ago...

humble · « **Reply #57 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:48:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
And none of that means anything.

You guys just don't get that your personal stats against the La-7 don't have any reflection on the relative qualities of the aircraft in question.

I'm pretty sure I have an overall positive K/D ratio over the La-7 while flying the Mosquito in AH. Is this, then, evidence that the Mosquito is a better fighter than the La-7?

Of course not. It simply means that I was able to kill more La-7s than were able to kill me. It says nothing about how those kills were obtained. The fact is that, barring HOs, I only won a total of four fights against co-E or better La-7s while flying the Mosquito. All my other kills were fained by using altitude or hitting distracted La-7s.

I sure as heck know that my lethality changes based on what I am flying.

Hmmm,

Thats why I took the trouble to post a few clips...

Why dont you go back and look at the either the la-7 or nikki clip and tell me what "advantage" I had.....

All I can tell you two is your attitude goes along way toward determining your outcome and both of you are toast before your wheels up from the runway....

http://www.azhacker.com/images/Ki61vsla7.ahf
http://www.azhacker.com/images/Ki61.nikki.rev.ahf

*links added at edit

humble · « **Reply #58 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:56:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Congratulations. The Tiff is about 5 mph slower than the La7, turns about as well, and has Hizookas. The Niki is quite capable of going to a draw with the La7, as it turns better and climbs almost as well, and the Hurri C also turns better and mounts Hizookas..

Besides which, the plane/pilot aren't the only two parts of the equation... there is also numbers. If you tend to fly in situations where there are always more friendlies than enemies, most every plane is good enough to kill in. Even I could probably kill an La7 in a 190A8 if it was busy fighting 3 other planes when I dove in.

So if I give you 5K and you take the tiffie and I grab a lala then the tiffies a better plane if you win?? or are you a better pilot?

The guy gives you a valid set of numbers and you immediately come up with excuses....

So the Tiffie, Nikki and Hurricane are all matches for the Lala...what other planes should we exclude from comparison?

Karnak · « **Reply #59 on:** November 11, 2004, 05:24:00 PM »

I remember the La-7 clip well enough. You had a massive E advantage, which is not surprising given you were flying an La-7 against a Spitfire.

You also continue to make the annoying assumption that we're looking at a binary choice, either the plane or the pilot. It is not one or the other, it is both. The capability of the aircraft acts as a multiplier of the pilot's skill with that aircraft.