Author Topic: 101st:"We were never ordered to search"  (Read 2083 times)

Offline Mighty1

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2004, 12:36:46 PM »
pacman can I call this^ guy and idiot yet?
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline Flit

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Re: 101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2004, 12:56:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
source

No search, no guards posted to stop looters. Why didn't the Bush team plan the basic task of guarding ammo dumps?

 Because there were  ammo dumps all over Iraq?
 These people keep morters and RPG's at home in the closet for home protection
 Lets see, that one dump had 37 large bunkers (how many to guard each one, 10 men, 20 ?) and 80 other buildings.
 Multiply this by a couple of hundred (at least) and how many men do you think it would take to guard all this stuff ?
 Iraq, It turns out, was one Huge ammo dump.
 No way in hell to cover everything, nevermind when your in the middle of a battle.
  The fact that CBS was going to bring this up the day before the election is is the biggest chunk of BS I have ever seen.

Offline VOR

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2004, 03:43:23 PM »
Who has time for facts that don't fit the ABB agenda? :p

Offline Elfie

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2004, 03:46:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
101... what the heck could you possibly know?

Hang on a bit and we'll have a Euro here to explain to you what you saw and what you did and what actually happened to you.

Your welcome.

















;)
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In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Widewing

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2004, 05:32:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
101, I you for your service. It was NOT the fault of the 101st, it was much further up the chain. You did the job you were told to do. Too bad the planners never put someone in place so your fellow soldiers did'nt have to deal with IED's today.


Here we have the typical ignorance displayed by those whose closest association with the military was playing with a GI Joe doll.

Do you have any idea how stupid your argument plays to those of us who are or were in the military?

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline rpm

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2004, 05:40:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Here we have the typical ignorance displayed by those whose closest association with the military was playing with a GI Joe doll.

Do you have any idea how stupid your argument plays to those of us who are or were in the military?

My regards,

Widewing

Widewing, I am a vet and proud of it. Unlike MOST of the current administration. The GI Joe comment should be directed towards Ripsnort and the rest of the republican Chickenhawks, not me.
My regards,
RPM
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Offline 101ABN

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2004, 05:50:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Here we have the typical ignorance displayed by those whose closest association with the military was playing with a GI Joe doll.

Do you have any idea how stupid your argument plays to those of us who are or were in the military?

My regards,

Widewing




i am serving and have been for the past 15 years, was half the pin heads that bash the war effort ever been there to say what should have happened? probably not, huh.. oh well cant argue with ignorance.    :)

Offline Widewing

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2004, 05:59:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Widewing, I am a vet and proud of it. Unlike MOST of the current administration. The GI Joe comment should be directed towards Ripsnort and the rest of the republican Chickenhawks, not me.
My regards,
RPM


Then you should know better. Combat units actively engaged are not going to guard enemy ammo bunkers. Their job is to engage and kill the enemy and that's where their focus is. When the advance is going at breakneck speed, command concerns are logistics, medical support and trying to plan far enough ahead of the advance. No one, and I mean NO ONE is paying the slightest attention to abandoned ammo dumps at this point. The rear echelon will catch up and secure abandoned ordnance. But, that will be days, maybe weeks later. The Mission is defeat the enemy, not inventory captured ordnance.

So, rpm, you were Air Force enlisted?

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Pongo

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2004, 06:07:36 PM »
If 101 says he searched that complex and there were no stockpiles of explosives then we must believe him.
But thats not what he says. He says this.
"there were plenty of units behind us so i dont think that there was much looting of the ammo dump after we left the area."

what happens when we assume 101?

"and how many men do you think it would take to guard all this stuff ?
Iraq, It turns out, was one Huge ammo dump.
"

well whose fault was it that there were not enought troops to perfom that necessary task? Was it RPMs fault? Was it kerrys fault?
Who set the force levels? Who thought shock and awe would turn a whole nation into quivering subservient republicans?

The administration has insisted at every turn befor and after that they had enought men. Are you saying they didnt have enough men?

Between the idiot republicans that think that only republicans serve their country and idiot republicans that think that only idiots serve their country, we sure have a nice collection of idiots here.

Offline VOR

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Re: 101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2004, 06:18:01 PM »
This post:

Quote
Originally posted by rpm
No search, no guards posted to stop looters. Why didn't the Bush team plan the basic task of guarding ammo dumps?


+ this post:

Quote
Originally posted by rpm
I am a vet and proud of it.


in the same thread? I hope you realise something doesn't add up. You don't exactly sound like the voice of experience. Try making a thread that says simply "Dubya is dumb" next time. You'll make your point without the need to (poorly) intermix real-world issues with your personal agenda.

for your service to your country.

Offline rpm

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2004, 06:23:45 PM »
No, I was a Boatswain's Mate in the Coast Guard. TYVM. The job of guarding the installation would not have been a job for the 101st. It would have been a job for an MP unit. As I have said more than once (and apparently no one will admit checking) this was not an isolated incident. The units were not prepared to handled the rash of looting that occurred. I personally don't care how many of Saddam's tractor tires they made off with, but I am concerned about HE disappearing.

The 39th Brigade arrived at Camp Cooke in Taji to find looted ammo bunkers. Members of the 39th were killed and injured BY THE SAME MUNITIONS THAT WERE LOOTED. The CO said it was because after we pulled out we did not post any guard and insurgents were free to "One Stop Shop" from the bunkers. That was a command decision and a grievous error.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Silat

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Re: Re: 101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2004, 06:37:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
Try making a thread that says simply "Dubya is dumb" next time. You'll make your point without the need to (poorly) intermix real-world issues with your personal agenda.

for your service to your country.



I dub GW the TEFLON DON. Nothing sticks not even the facts:(

                         :(
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Offline rpm

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2004, 06:53:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
The 39th Brigade arrived at Camp Cooke in Taji to find looted ammo bunkers. Members of the 39th were killed and injured BY THE SAME MUNITIONS THAT WERE LOOTED. The CO said it was because after we pulled out we did not post any guard and insurgents were free to "One Stop Shop" from the bunkers.

VOR, Widewing....no comment?
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Offline Widewing

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101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2004, 06:58:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
No, I was a Boatswain's Mate in the Coast Guard. TYVM. The job of guarding the installation would not have been a job for the 101st. It would have been a job for an MP unit. As I have said more than once (and apparently no one will admit checking) this was not an isolated incident. The units were not prepared to handled the rash of looting that occurred. I personally don't care how many of Saddam's tractor tires they made off with, but I am concerned about HE disappearing.

The 39th Brigade arrived at Camp Cooke in Taji to find looted ammo bunkers. Members of the 39th were killed and injured BY THE SAME MUNITIONS THAT WERE LOOTED. The CO said it was because after we pulled out we did not post any guard and insurgents were free to "One Stop Shop" from the bunkers. That was a command decision and a grievous error.


Okay, I can't expect a Coastie to understand this, but I'll explain it anyway.

The limited Iraqi road-net was bumper to bumper with combat units and essential logics. Where do you suppose the MPs were?
Far in the rear, securing towns and cities already captured.

The decision to guard ammo dumps is made no higher than the Division level. And trust me, Division was looking for chemical and biological weapons. High explosives can be gleaned from any explosive ordnance including artillery rounds, mortar rounds and the like. Were the combat units supposed to guard every piece of ordnance found on the battlefield?

During the first Gulf war, Iraqi ammo dumps were left unguarded by combat units too. Why? Because, THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB. They don't have time to stop and secure ammo dumps. Stopping puts soldiers at risk, because it allows the enemy the opportunity to reorganize. In an advance like that in Iraq, units keep going until the run out of gas, and then they get out and walk if need be. No field commander is going to reduce his combat power and effectiveness by detaching personnel to guard ordnance. God knows, they have enough delays with equipment breaking down and traffic jams in the rear preventing essential supplies from arriving in a timely manner. No one on earth expected the Iraqis to collapse like they did. No one expected to be advancing so fast that the REMFs couldn't keep up.

As it is, we do know that there were no high explosives found when the inspection teams caught up in early May. The odd are that the all of RDX and HDX had already been removed. Some 35 tons were already missing in early March, a month before the 101st got there. We also know that Hussein was moving munitions from bunkers in expectation that they would be hit by American aircraft if the war actually began. The CIA stated last year that Hussein had stockpiled weapons in remote locations in the event that a guerrilla war would be fought.

You have to apply common sense... I realize that those two words together is an oxymoron.

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: October 27, 2004, 07:00:28 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline VOR

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Re: Re: Re: 101st:"We were never ordered to search"
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2004, 06:59:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
I dub GW the TEFLON DON. Nothing sticks not even the facts:(
                         :(


So...when this episode of "Command Decisions" gets aired in a few years, who's decision will the viewing audience get to make? I doubt it will be the CIC. So...who made the conscious decision or grievous oversight with regards to this particular ammo dump, and why? What other specific examples can we cite?

FWIW, I saw a couple such dumps get blasted straight to the moon (Iskandariya, Mosul), but this was well after "combat operations" were concluded, but not before alot of bad stuff made it's way into the general population. I suppose we should burn a witch for those cases too.