Author Topic: La-7.....frusteration.....rising..... (Read 5344 times)

Urchin · « **Reply #165 on:** November 11, 2004, 07:45:39 PM »

Actually the La-7 is kind of annoying for a different reason too. Not only is it the fastest, best accelerating, best climbing plane.. it is also the toughest. whoopee things just shrug off hits that'll kill other planes. Irritating as hell too.

Side note, this is why I get pissed in the MA. Flew a few sorties this morning, started off flying against 2-3 guys that were milkrunning a coastal base from a CV. After a couple 2v2/3's, about 5 more guys showed up on their side. After a few 2v8's, some folks started showing up on our side, so of course the newb chicken****s jumped out of the planes and into the manned ack on the CV. Same thing happened at the other fight I went to.. chased 2 chicken****s back to their CV ack, some newb polesmoker in the 5 inch held the trigger down till I died.

Log in tonight, have 3 fights. A 3v1, and two 5v1s. Logged.

It is ****ing boring, period.

I'm glad as hell EQ2 came out, even if it doesn't have PvP it is far more entertaining for me than this bull**** is.

4510 · « **Reply #166 on:** November 11, 2004, 09:39:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Excellent understanding of SA! You are not far from enlightenment, Nirvana may be attained Grasshopper

Why thank-you Ak.. but I had my BGO (brilliant glimpse of the obvious ) some years ago! I've been an SA devotee for quite awhile. I jeeped in reading DoK's writings and Twist's dissertations on flying the FW190a8 etc....

4510 · « **Reply #167 on:** November 11, 2004, 09:39:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Stang
Get on Soup's six and yer probably gonna get showered with 20mm's from me

Yeah what Stang said.....
I mean Stang's nickname for me is "bait fish".

4510 · « **Reply #168 on:** November 11, 2004, 09:43:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Actually the La-7 is kind of annoying for a different reason too. Not only is it the fastest, best accelerating, best climbing plane.. it is also the toughest. whoopee things just shrug off hits that'll kill other planes. Irritating as hell too.

I'm glad as hell EQ2 came out, even if it doesn't have PvP it is far more entertaining for me than this bull**** is.

I'm not sure the La-7 is the best climber... Matter of fact I used to climb in the Dora to drag us above 9k or so where I could out speed the LaLa. G10 used to be able to do that above 3k. Did they change the flight model so that no longer works?

Oh.. what is EQ2?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #169 on:** November 11, 2004, 09:57:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin

I know at least some of it has to be my fault, I used to have the idea that people did want to improve at A2A fighting (any style, be it energy or turnfighting.. as long as people are fighting, I'm happy). I've become somewhat dissillusioned of that idea over the past couple of years, as the preeminent form of "fighting" seems to revolve around making sure the group you are flying with is significantly bigger, higher, and faster than whatever group you expect to run into.

I think that may have something to do with the Hit N Run style of fighting that seems so prevelant when you run into someone flying solo. Typically they are in a fast plane (dora, la7, p51, typh), make one pass and run for the hills... they may not be running. They might just not have any idea where the hell you got off to while you were dodging their pass, I dunno.

Although it makes for a very boring game it must be noted that this is precisely what most air to air figting evolved into during WW2.

Redd · « **Reply #170 on:** November 11, 2004, 10:44:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Excellent understanding of SA! You are not far from enlightenment, Nirvana may be attained Grasshopper

Good SA should start with viewing every con as an opportunity , not a threat.

Too many people think it's the other way round

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #171 on:** November 11, 2004, 10:56:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Redd

Good SA should start with viewing every con as an opportunity , not a threat.

VERY enlightened, I am humbled sir, and will certainly take that under advisement

Obviously there are individuals of high caliber in this game. It just takes some shaking to get them out of the trees.

Not of course do I think of myself as "high caliber". I'm just a razor totin' snake in the grass.

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #172 on:** November 11, 2004, 11:03:44 PM »

Urchin:

Have a beer buddy, we all have bad days in AH2. Give it a rest, then hammer some bogeys, it'll perk you up

Redd · « **Reply #173 on:** November 11, 2004, 11:33:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
VERY enlightened, I am humbled sir, and will certainly take that under advisement

Obviously there are individuals of high caliber in this game. It just takes some shaking to get them out of the trees.

Not of course do I think of myself as "high caliber". I'm just a razor totin' snake in the grass.

~~sorry , I didn't mean that to sound cocky, what I mean is every con is an opportunity for a good fight (win , lose or draw) hell no-one wins em all. But we can all go in thinking we can win~~

Slash27 · « **Reply #174 on:** November 11, 2004, 11:47:19 PM »

Arrogant Aussie:rolleyes:

<>

4510 · « **Reply #175 on:** November 12, 2004, 12:37:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Redd
sorry , I didn't mean that to sound cocky, what I mean is every con is an opportunity for a good fight (win , lose or draw) hell no-one wins em all. But we can all go in thinking we can win

If taken in a context of a single con or a couple of cons. But I think you have to evaluate the opportunity AND the threat of every con.

I desire for myself to have a basic "picture" of my immediate surroundings before I ever enter a fight. Simple things need to be identified, opportunities and threats. Not just what are my chances of downing my intended target, but also how long do I think it will take. What will change in the current picture with respect to how long it takes me to accomplish my task. What are the enemy's chances of being reinforced, what are my chances. What is my escape azimuth? Nothing worse than being in the middle of fight and having to make a run for it and taking off in the WRONG direction.

When joining a muti-plane fight there is a process of choosing which enemy planes to attack first based on type, altitude, e-state etc. Generally my priority would be ... highest... fastest.... fastest capability... lower... slower. The first three are the biggest threats to my survival and should be eliminated first, the last two are targets of opportunity only.

Just some thoughts..... your mileage may vary.

Stang · « **Reply #176 on:** November 12, 2004, 12:55:14 AM »

Kill all la7's first w/ extreme prejudice and hatred. Then the rest of the pack is there for the taking

Tilt · « **Reply #177 on:** November 12, 2004, 03:40:41 AM »

I think Urchin and Dok hit the nail on the head...........

I see it in my own style of play........

I dont want to join my sides massive attack and look round the map for a smaller sets of opposing darbars.

On Okanzas (in my time frame) this is pretty rare.....

So I will launch from a nieghbouring field to one of ours which is under massive attack from the opposition.

The La7 is ideal for this for me......... I get bored of floating around at 15/20k in FW's or Ponies waiting for stuff to come up.

I want to get into an enemy pack with an exit policy (hope of any way) up my sleeve.

I know that if I go into or even close to the enemy pack and hit some sort of e sapping furball mode I will not get out. Going in chasing a few tails in the sure and certain knowledge that I may get a few and then die is to me ............ boring.

To me the challenge is kill a few and get home.........I could get 10 kills and to my mind they count for nothing if I do not bring them home. (not that I ever get 10 kills)

For this game play the La7 is ideal.

If the pack is a small one or indeed I have found some local small darbar activity I will use the La5 or play with other ac.

For ground attack I use the Typhie for much the same reasons.

The point is that I do pretty much as Urchin described when I am opposing overwhelming odds.

Tilt · « **Reply #178 on:** November 12, 2004, 03:59:44 AM »

Originally posted by humble

to put it perspective (from my "limited" understanding)...

There is no such thing as "stall" fighting...I dont believe you will ever find the phrase used to describe a fighting doctrine anywhere in any book.

I agree as I said "stall fighting only exists in AH" (read sims)

Everything you ever need to win any fight under any circumstances is right there in Shaw...unless of course the other guy read the book to:)

But he does not address sims (for obvious reasons)

If you look at some of Shaws examples you will see some high e manouvres where he quite clearly proposes that one ac risks a snap shot from another to gain angle or separation.

My point is that the risk involved in this is far less in high e high speed "jet" type manouvering than in lower e low speed prop manouvering. In fact insome of his examples an AH opponent will not take the snap shot he will be able to lag or lead turn to a more stable guns solution. The example is there fore only valid for e states much higher than can be found in AH (unless we are talking 262 v 262)

Hence the theory of e states and angles as porported by Shaw is very valid to AH some of the examples to generate separation are not valid to AH and stall fighting does occur in AH and Shaws real world perspective quite rightly does not address this.

and to remain on topic much of Shaw can be used to kill or avoid La7's.......I have read it at least 3 times and constantly refer back to it. You just have to sort out the bits that dont apply.

Wmaker · « **Reply #179 on:** November 12, 2004, 05:42:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tilt
So I will launch from a nieghbouring field to one of ours which is under massive attack from the opposition.

The La7 is ideal for this for me......... I get bored of floating around at 15/20k in FW's or Ponies waiting for stuff to come up.

I want to get into an enemy pack with an exit policy (hope of any way) up my sleeve.

I do this a lot with Dora. I love that plane.

Handles beautifully in that kind of situations. IIRC I got 12 once in a situation like that.

Quote

Originally posted by Tilt
I know that if I go into or even close to the enemy pack and hit some sort of e sapping furball mode I will not get out. Going in chasing a few tails in the sure and certain knowledge that I may get a few and then die is to me ............ boring.

To me the challenge is kill a few and get home.........I could get 10 kills and to my mind they count for nothing if I do not bring them home. (not that I ever get 10 kills)

Couldn't agree more!

I fly more or less this way myself too.