Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 2420 times)

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2004, 12:45:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
Are there any reliable sources on the dirtrict results fromt he voting ?

EU diplomant on radio ( BBC ) the other day stated that whole districtis had a turnout rates along the way of 100% with 100% of people voting for the same candidate.

If there is proof to that info, i'm convinced.
 

Does your media say that for example in Lvov the violations in Yu's favour were pathetic? They gave packs of ballots directly to the crowd saying "you know how to vote"...


Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
Boroda, question for you: do you think that recent elections in Bialorus were free and fair ?


Yes.

Belorussia is the only post-USSR republic that now has industrial growth over the state of 1990. They don't bend over for NATO and "friends" from overseas, that's why they are shown as "fascists" by Western media. People there live at least as good as in Russia, but without criminal "olygarchs" robbing the people.

I can believe that people were sincere voting for "bat'ka" Lukashenko. I want a guy like him here in Russia.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2004, 12:55:23 PM »
For those who speak Russian (or can read Russian/Ukrainian Cyrillic) - here is a link to a discussion on our Forum. You can see all knds of opinions there.

What frightens me is "katsapam - gan'ba" slogan from some our Ukrainian friends. True Friends, BTW.

Another opinion: instability in Ukraine is good for Russian business. Pro-Western president can destroy Ukrainian weapon industry that competes with Russian, Russia can claim all the Ukrainian debts (they owe us literally half of their country for natural gas and oil), etc...

Does anyone really think that Ukraine will be allowed to join EU?... :confused:

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2004, 03:30:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Does anyone really think that Ukraine will be allowed to join EU?... :confused:


why not? i mean not anytime soon, but if they allowed us to join...
Can't really say if we are good addition to EU and if it's a good business for us, time will show, but i think that IF Ukraina will have something to offer, they will be welcomed.

Anyway, they have to decide if they want to be more Russian or European country and the rest will act accordingly.

Offline brendo

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« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2004, 03:36:00 PM »
« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 03:40:37 PM by brendo »

Offline genozaur

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« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2004, 04:27:57 PM »
Re : Boroda's opinion
Another opinion: instability in Ukraine is good for Russian business. Pro-Western president can destroy Ukrainian weapon industry that competes with Russian, Russia can claim all the Ukrainian debts (they owe us literally half of their country for natural gas and oil), etc...

Ukraine is another victim of international financial sharks who are behind all this "dungocracy" and "velvet" revolutions of the late XX and early XXI centuries. The more turmoil all around the world -
the better for the fat cats. And once again the fight is not over the Ukraine but around Russia and its huge mineral resourses.
"Id'yot okhota na volkov" ("They are hunting down the volwes"), as sung Vladimir Vysotskiy.
And really, do certain North American circles need any true freedom anywhere in the world? Especially in the countries that are, by their position on the face of the earth, dependant on Russia, this strong wolf of Eurasian steppes and thick forests. But one can hire a loose band of coyottes and distract Russian attention from more important problems.
 The Golden Bull needs peaceful money cows.
Notwithstanding of what true American patriots
may think about this matter.
 So, in the short run, instability in Ukraine may be profitable for Russian business, but I don't think that it is in the best interest of Russia to have an angry hungry coyotte as the neighbor.
 This also answers the question about the Ukrainian debts (for borrowed from Russia oil and gas). With the "pro-Russian" president in Kyyv Russia can "forgive" the debts as a jesture of the good will, exactly as it has just did with the billions of the Iraqi debts. This would make favorable for Russia impression on many Ukrainians. But with the pro-Western candidate in the presidential seat of Ukraine the international forces will PUSH Russia to make the same decision in order for themselves to look nice. In both cases Russia will lose financially.
 About the membership of Ukraine in the European Union I can only say that it is a provocation also directed at Russia because at pres time the membership in the EU is  connected to the NATO ( why this ugly remnant of Cold War is still walking down the streets of the European capitals is quite understandable -
I can see the hairy arm of American imperialism).
« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 04:31:44 PM by genozaur »

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2004, 05:12:54 PM »
Boroda, i guess you're refering to this:

http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/1,59825,2412231.html

This is the most idiotic theory I've ever heard, and being both, polish and american, it amuzes me to no end.

What next ? Jews and masons coalitions to take over teh world ?

maybe, just maybe, people in ukraine are sick of living in stone age, in the name of panslavic nations, the wonderful Tzarist idea to keep tabs on all eastern europe. Brothers ? I don't think they got over uncle Joe yet and his agricultular ideas.

Poland and other eastern europe nations gone towards the west and in last 12 years standard of living skyrocketed, if compared with bellybutton backwards places like Bialorus and Ukraine. Wonder why ? Don't you suppose that those people want to live in normal country rather then USSR redux ?

Bialorus elections were a joke. Results were known before votes were cast and you know it.

You'd like ******* just like him in Russia ? Wake up and smell the coffee Boroda. I like you man, you know I do, but you're really getting weird lately.

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2004, 02:36:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Yanukovich was in prison in Soviet times. In hard times.


As our news pointed - he was prisoned for rape once, if it's true, somehow i won'[t believe it's caused by a bad Soviet regime. IF it's true he's nop more no less but a criminal... and if you as me, i do prefer someone who violated the constitution over someone who raped a woman.

Question is - if it's true, as i've also read that Yanukovich's "papers" dissapeared from the evidence in a mysterious ways and now he can say he was prisoned for giving diapers to the poor kids
:rolleyes:

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2004, 06:50:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bikekil
As our news pointed - he was prisoned for rape once, if it's true, somehow i won'[t believe it's caused by a bad Soviet regime. IF it's true he's nop more no less but a criminal... and if you as me, i do prefer someone who violated the constitution over someone who raped a woman.

Question is - if it's true, as i've also read that Yanukovich's "papers" dissapeared from the evidence in a mysterious ways and now he can say he was prisoned for giving diapers to the poor kids
:rolleyes:


The rape accusation was called back. The girl probably understood it's not a good way to get married ;)

Now please look at Yu gang: Yulia Timoshenko is under trial for heavy crimes, and now that silly ***** calls people to violence and overthrowing the democratically-elected authorities.

Noone tries to hide obvious connection between Yu gang and international criminal groups, led by "political refugees" like Boris Berezovsky, responcible for many crimes including the begining and sustaining the war in Chechnya.

Again: any news on violations of the election rules by Yu and "democratic opposition"? JFYI: Ya side has 6000 reports on violations already in courts.

Keep watching TV guys. They'll tell you the truth. :lol

Another thing to think about: Zbignev Brzezinsky already commented the situation in Ukraine. Guess wo he supports? Now that studmuffingot Solana, butcher of Yugoslavia, comes to Kiev for "negotiations". Tell me who's your friend...

Offline straffo

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« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2004, 07:00:31 AM »
Ok I follow your reasoning Boroda :
the enemy of democraty are wearing orange shirts

the friends of democraty are dressed in blue/Kaki/combat fatigue have helmet on their head plus guns.

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2004, 07:31:02 AM »
"Now please look at Yu gang: Yulia Timoshenko is under trial for heavy crimes, and now that silly ***** calls people to violence and overthrowing the democratically-elected authorities."

OK, so i could conclude it that way right?

Ya, was prisoned two times, the documentation of it dissapeared in a mysterious way, but you havn't said what was the reason of the penalty he got, so i can assume that it was not a "politica" thing... He just is a criminal :)

now,
Timoshenko is under trial for havey crimes - never heard of it, and glad you said that. Prolly would not heard of it in our news, but there are two things - udner trial does not mean she's guilty and other, can you tell me what havy crimes that are?

As for the "calls people to violence and overthrowing the democratically-elected authorities." part - as far as i see, people there are protesting in a friendly way, they are not hunting them oposition down on the streets. i would not call it a violence! but you are right about the thing, that they are against the elected president. At this point i would never call that elections a democratic ones, but me, you or anyone here can't be the judge about it. We can have our doubts but none of us were there and seen any violations.

It's pretty similar to what we had here with Solidarity - they were called Criminals by the Soviet and Polish goverments... and our giverment was nothing more then a Soviet govermant we had here. Without the Solidarity, Walesa and the protests we had here, we would never be where we are now, and believe be we are happy to have what we have :)

So i really understand people who are trying to do everything that's possible for them, to have a better life. sorry to say it, but at this point i think that noone except Europe can offer them a better life.
I can't say if after what's going to happened over there EU will screw them or not, but still that's what i think.

As for the "Keep watching TV" sentence - do you believe your TV will showing you the truth? :lol

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2004, 07:49:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
Boroda, i guess you're refering to this:

http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/1,59825,2412231.html

This is the most idiotic theory I've ever heard, and being both, polish and american, it amuzes me to no end.

What next ? Jews and masons coalitions to take over teh world ?

maybe, just maybe, people in ukraine are sick of living in stone age, in the name of panslavic nations, the wonderful Tzarist idea to keep tabs on all eastern europe. Brothers ? I don't think they got over uncle Joe yet and his agricultular ideas.

Poland and other eastern europe nations gone towards the west and in last 12 years standard of living skyrocketed, if compared with bellybutton backwards places like Bialorus and Ukraine. Wonder why ? Don't you suppose that those people want to live in normal country rather then USSR redux ?

Bialorus elections were a joke. Results were known before votes were cast and you know it.

You'd like ******* just like him in Russia ? Wake up and smell the coffee Boroda. I like you man, you know I do, but you're really getting weird lately.


Sorry, I understand mayby only 50-70% of that Polish article. :(

I don't know who is that Markov, but the idea that Brzezinsky and Polish diaspora wants to spoil relations between Putin and Bush is interesting.

I see Brzezinsky as the biggest enemy of Eastern Slavs, Russia and USSR. Frankly speaking - I never think of him as of a Pole. He's just a cold war relic, who writes books about how to destroy Russia, seriously thinking that 60% of it's population must be eliminated, with the rest working on oil and gas supplies to the West.

If someone is supported by pan Zbignew - then he's definetly an enemy.

As for Belorussia - they do live good, and they made it clear that majority supports Lukashenko. Here we go again: if the results of democratic elections don't suit Western powers - they declare it "fake" and "non-democratic". Isn't it time for your "democratic" brass-hats to STFU?

"Do you still believe in democracy? Then we fly to YOU!".

Working people of the Ukraine understand what will happen if Yu will seize power. Unemployment, almost total in Donbass with it's coal mines, inflation and maybe hunger. Bankers and speculants unerstand that he's their president - that's why every "protestor" in Kiev gets 50 hrivnyas a day.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2004, 08:12:19 AM »
Belorussia a democraty ?

Wow ! I'm the next queen of England!

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2004, 08:35:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Belorussia a democraty ?

Wow ! I'm the next queen of England!


You have to learn as long as you live :)

They have elections, and on referendum majority voted for Lukashenko to be allowed to participate in next presidental elections.

I think they voted so because they saw how the other party ran the coutry in early-90s, and see what goes on in Russia.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2004, 10:28:45 AM »
http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22&ReportID=230

Contrary to the condemnations issued by the team of professional politicians and diplomats deployed by the OSCE mainly from NATO and EU states, the BHHRG observers did not see evidence of government-organized fraud nor of suppression of opposition media. Improbably high votes for Prime  Minister, Viktor Yanukovich, have been reported from south-eastern Ukraine but less attention has been given to the 90% pro-Yushchenko results declared in western Ukraine.

Although Western media widely claimed that in Ukraine the opposition was, in effect, excluded from the broadcast media, particularly in western Ukraine the opposite was the case. On the eve of the poll – in flagrant violation of the law banning propaganda for candidates – a series of so-called “social information” advertisements showing well-known pop stars like Eurovision winner Ruslana wearing the orange symbols of Mr Yushchenko’s candidacy and urging people to vote appeared on state television!


Who's the biggest fan of "human rights watch" here?...

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2004, 10:58:43 AM »
My favourite:



Quote from Independance Square in Kiev:

"We will save our country by shutting down the industry, having no classes in schools and colleges, stopping transport!"

@#$% "rebel princess"...