Author Topic: Learning to fly (Read 8103 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:03:02 PM »

Well, the Warrior is definately a sexy low wing plane, but the school I want to train at doesn't have any high wings. I guess it'll be like learning to drive in a stick versus an automatic: It might be a little more challenging while I'm doing it, but I'll be able to fly more stuff afterwards.

mars01 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:13:12 PM »

LOL,

The Warrior is by far a much easier plane to fly than a High wing.

A high wing airplane will go into a spin if you stall it and the ball is not centered.

The warrior doesn't even really stall ( it just msuhes along) let alone spin. If you do all your training in a Warrior make sure you go out and learn stalls and spins in a 152 or even in a 172. If your only expirience with stalls is in a low wing you may get yourself into trouble if you ever fly a high wing.

Chairboy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:17:07 PM »

Ok, thanks!

ra · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:26:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
LOL,

The Warrior is by far a much easier plane to fly than a High wing.

A high wing airplane will go into a spin if you stall it and the ball is not centered.

The warrior doesn't even really stall ( it just msuhes along) let alone spin. If you do all your training in a Warrior make sure you go out and learn stalls and spins in a 152 or even in a 172. If your only expirience with stalls is in a low wing you may get yourself into trouble if you ever fly a high wing.

High-wing and low-wing have nothing to do with dangerous spin characteristics. You would really have to be hamfisted to get a 152 or a 172 to spin unintentionally.

ra

mars01 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:39:16 PM »

Quote

High-wing and low-wing have nothing to do with dangerous spin characteristics. You would really have to be hamfisted to get a 152 or a 172 to spin unintentionally.

Completely untrue! Nor did I say it had dangerous spin characteristics. A warrior doesn't really even stall so you don't even get decent stall training in one.

If you stall a 152 and do not add right rudder it's gonna spin no way around it. If you stall a 152 and add a little aileron it's gonna spin. When is the last time you flew and or for that matter spun one?

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:48:57 PM »

I'm pretty sure I did full stalls in a warrior (it's been a while) The 150(2) broke pretty hard but that was during my first 10 hours, so it made an impression on me.

Piper Tomahawks were first touted as spinnable, as unless it was an Aerobat, nobody spun 150's

Nobody spins for private pilot training anymore; more folks were getting killed in training that they were saving by spin training. Save that for after you have your private or sport pilot cert.

My local airport has a instructor who has a Citabria and I did some spins, rolls and loops in that, as Cessnas and Pipers are generally not spun. A Citabria is an excellent choice if available to you, a pretty basic airplane that can allow some advanced maneuvers when you are ready.

mars01 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:54:49 PM »

The thing with stalls in a warrior is that when it stalls even if you hold the yoke back it will just mush. It has a very gentle stall.

If your only expieriance is in a Warrior and you somehow get into a plane for the first time that has a much more pronounced stall and a tendency to spin, I certainly hope you are on your check out in type.

Spins are nothing to be afraid of and put no undo stress on an airplane since you are in a stalled configuration.

The most dangerous part of a spin is the recovery from the dive, you are invaibly in after breaking the stall. If you recover too late you could have some problems.

Should you do spin training during your private pilot training? If you are flying a Warrior no, if you are flying a High wing Yes! You should not even be able to practice stalls alone in a high wing unless you can recover a spin.

Also aren't spins a basic part of the CFI check ride.

Quote

A Citabria is an excellent choice if available to you, a pretty basic airplane that can allow some advanced maneuvers when you are ready.

Great advice and will only make you a better safer pilot.

jigsaw · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:16:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
Also aren't spins a basic part of the CFI check ride.

You are required to have done spin training and received an endoresment to that effect for your initial CFI ride. You only have to demonstrate spins to the examiner if they find you deficient in that knowledge area.

Chairboy · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:19:09 PM »

I really appreciate the info, guys! I called the place and the instructor was out on a flight (a good sign, right?) and the guy on the phone thought he might have an opening tomorrow. I'll be sure to post here after I fly.

eagl · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:42:29 PM »

I have around 100 hours in 150/152/172 aircraft including some T-41 time, and I performed over a hundred stalls and not one of them threatened to spin. In fact, one of my instructors had a stability demonstration he had me perform where we did a gentle power off stall and held the controls full aft, and as the plane settled into the full stall, gently nudged rudder left and right. The nose of the plane would rotate a bit left and right along with the direction of the rudder application. At no point did the plane attempt to enter a spin and the recovery was as simple as relaxing the aft controls and adding power.

In the T-41, we did turning stalls, recovered both at the entry and at the full stall, and none of those developed into a spin either.

I'm not sure where you got "high wing aircraft spin easily" but in 17 years of flying experience I have never heard that. The high wing cessnas are very stable and forgiving in the stall, and if a spin is somehow entered they recover very easily.

The ONLY stability problem I ever heard of was in early high wing cessnas with the older tail without the longish strake, a 40 degree flap setting could potentially blank out the vertical tail if the aircraft was aggressively slipped with the flaps full down. This is why flap travel is limited on some models of the 150/152/172.

ra · « **Reply #25 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:14:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
Completely untrue! Nor did I say it had dangerous spin characteristics. A warrior doesn't really even stall so you don't even get decent stall training in one.

If you stall a 152 and do not add right rudder it's gonna spin no way around it. If you stall a 152 and add a little aileron it's gonna spin. When is the last time you flew and or for that matter spun one?

I've spun a 152, it doesn't go all that easily, it takes crossed controls to do it. And you still haven't explained how a high-wing plane spins easier than a low wing plane. All those planes are very stable and will not spin easily. They wouldn't be used as trainers otherwise.

ra

ra · « **Reply #26 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:16:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Piper Tomahawks were first touted as spinnable, as unless it was an Aerobat, nobody spun 150's

I did my training in a Traumahawk, spins were prohibited.

mia389 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:24:16 PM »

hehe I got a video I made last week of spining a 152. Like RA said it takes some forcing to spin. I had to have full left rudder and full aft yoke. It was alot of fun though. It was my first spin ever. Heres the link video

Some reason quick time will only play the video for me.

Chairboy I really recomend flying. I started fling last year now and have all my ratings and have enjoyed it alot. Im now looking forward to flight instructing. I recomend using Gleim products for your written test. They have helped me pass all my written test with ease. http://www.gleim.com/products/productdetails.php?proID=5249

A big question you need to ask yourself is what you are going to do after you get your PPL. To stay current and carry passengers you will need to log at least 3 take offs and landing in the preceding 90 days. It can get expensive just to remain current.

If you have any questions feel free to email me at mia_389@hotmail.com
Allen Thomas

eagl · « **Reply #28 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:25:32 PM »

I paid $2/hr extra to not fly the tomachicken.

If I recall correctly, you can spin 150s and 152s if you adhere to the utility category limits, but nobody really does that since the previous pilots may not have paid much attention to the operations limits.

You can also roll a 172 if you're careful, but it's easy to accidentally overspeed the engine on the last third of the roll because the nose will drop pretty far even if you start the roll really nose high, and most inexpensive private aircraft gyros can't take that kind of abuse but can't be caged either, so the owner will get pissed.

Anyone wanting to do that sort of thing is better off renting a citabria or equivalent and going up with an acro instructor.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #29 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:30:36 PM »

According to Mazzai Flying Service the Tomahawk was certifed for spins, but according to some other sites, it seems to have a bad rep because the design led to a higher incidence of stall/spin accidents, because the airplane cannot simply fly itself out of a spin like other trainers - it wasn't meant to, so that students would learn proper control inputs.