I'm unusually proud to be an American today...

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Boroda
Unfortunately, Soviet education didn't include details of Western provocations that started the Cold War. I had to find all the information on your dirty tricks in modern, pro-Western "history".

What Suave said above.. plus how about backing up this stupendous drivel with some facts?  Perhaps you mean how the U.S. blocked Berlin and tried to starve the population in order to force the Russians out?  Or maybe shooting people for trying to leave the country?  How about maintaining puppet governments to do their will?

[FUNKED1]

Bad, drunken, troll.

[Yeager]

jeeze boroda, thats some ****ed up **** your spewing bro.  go sleep it off and beg for forgiveness at a later date.

[OneWordAnswer]

Originally posted by Boroda
At least USSR liberated Poland from nazis,  

Katyn

[Otto]

You're so right 'OneWord'.  I forgot all about Katyn.  Shame on me.....

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Jackal1
180Bn and 1000 American lives you say? Try this on for size.... Freedom is not free. Never has been. Never will be. There has always been and will always be wars. Otherwise tyrants such as these would just roll over the rest of the world. I know for a fact that our country will not just "assume the position" and wait to be attacked by these wannabe world rulers.

Saddam - a wannabe world ruler? Oh puhhleeeeze...

I don't doubt that Saddam once had WMD. But I never believed he had the vehicle to deploy them far beyond his own frontiers. We saw Scuds hitting Israel when DD (Dubya's Dad) was in charge. But was America ever under threat from Iraq? Not directly. What concerned me was the possibility of Saddam exporting WMD to neighbouring states and/or other organisations willing to pay the asking price. That may already have happened...

As for the rest of your post, try not to let this moment of patriotic fervour cloud your judgement. And remember, if the attempt at democracy fails, you can always reassess your justification of the war by saying it stabilised the oil supply to the US.
:aok

[Golfer]

Ugh...

I really am disappointed in everyone here for letting this thread degenerate into a Beet1e slamming U.S., U.S. jabbing back at beet1e, boroda piping up mudsling fest.

Get some new material, it's just getting boring.

[Cobra412]

Beetle it doesn't have to be the US directly that Iraq would be attacking.  We have allies in that region that were within range of SHs missiles.  We can let it go and watch when the first missiles rain down on our allies.  We won't be held responsible though when they retaliate with whatever means they feel necessary.  If you think for one minute though that places like Israel wouldn't retaliate with WMDs your a fool.  Especially against a dictator that is known for using such devices in the past against his enemies.    

I'm sure though you've seen where Iraq was placing their missiles and what their ranges were and payload capabilities.  I'm sure you'll also say it's purely for oil and not because they are our allies.  America is just a greedy country and we care only for oil and nothing more.

[Otto]

Originally posted by Golfer
Ugh...

I really am disappointed in everyone here for letting this thread degenerate into a Beet1e slamming U.S., U.S. jabbing back at beet1e, boroda piping up mudsling fest.

Get some new material, it's just getting boring.

Your right......., but's it's a slow Sunday before the Super Bowl.  

[wombatt]

I am proud of our troops as well but here is my problem.
It seems that most of the people in Iraq hate us and want us out of there country as they see us as occupiers!

I can only hope that our young men and women can be brought home ASAP!
Now that AMERICA has fought and died for a democracy for a largely ungrateful country.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Cobra412
If you think for one minute though that places like Israel wouldn't retaliate with WMDs your a fool.  Especially against a dictator that is known for using such devices in the past against his enemies.

In 1991, Israel was targeted by Saddam's Scuds, most of which were destroyed by US Patriot missiles. And Israel did not retaliate. I think maybe DD asked them not to.

I'm not saying that Iraq won't be better off in the long term. But the keyword here is "long".  I've just finished watching a 50 minute presentation on the BBC programme Panorama. Sure, elections are going on - but so are a lot of explosions and gunfire in the streets of various Baghdad cities. Things have got worse for the allies in the past few months. More than 1400 American service personnel have died, and more than 100 British. Pssst - it's the insurgent thingy

One of the questions being asked is

As Iraq holds historic elections, Panorama presents a major film examining the state of Iraq today. Will the elections put the country on the road to peace - or push it deeper into war?

- Indeed. We'll have to wait and see.

No-one can argue with those who would claim that the war was launched under a false prospectus, given how things have turned out, what with no WMD and all.

We can't change the past, so the best we can do now is to safeguard the future of Iraq.

I'm not bashing the US or the UK over this war, although the security services have a lot of questions to answer IMO.

But what I am saying is that it's way too early to get carried away by Golfer's patriotic flag waving, or Jackal's nationalistic chest thumping.

That is all.

Toodle Pip.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by beet1e
Saddam - a wannabe world ruler? Oh puhhleeeeze...

I don't doubt that Saddam once had WMD. But I never believed he had the vehicle to deploy them far beyond his own frontiers. We saw Scuds hitting Israel when DD (Dubya's Dad) was in charge. But was America ever under threat from Iraq? Not directly. What concerned me was the possibility of Saddam exporting WMD to neighbouring states and/or other organisations willing to pay the asking price. That may already have happened...

As for the rest of your post, try not to let this moment of patriotic fervour cloud your judgement. And remember, if the attempt at democracy fails, you can always reassess your justification of the war by saying it stabilised the oil supply to the US.


:aok

  That`s just the point. No , he didn`t have the capability at the time , but if you let wannabes like him, no matter what country, get a foothold and start rolling over others, then the capability becomes not only a possibility, but a reality.
  Yea Beet we are a very patriotic country as a whole. We are not very lackluster and Ho Humish when it comes to our country, our freedom and our life. We get very involved. Were proud of our country and what we do for others and don`t mind showing it.
  Frankly I don`t believe you folks could get excitied about anything if an M-80 was lit under your ass.
  As for as the oil goes.......get a grip . If we wanted or needed just the oil, and was determined to have it, we would have waltzed in, kicked their bellybutton and took it.

[midnight Target]

The high voter turnout and the Iraqi reaction to the election is very heartening. The decision to go to war may have been flawed, but this bodes well for its end.

To quote my favorite 1/2 American:

"This may not be the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning."

[Rolex]

All of you are quite funny. None of you have ever broached the reason for the Iraq invasion. You bicker over the means and method, yet don't discuss the reason. It's abundantly clear that you do not know the reason, but that's normal. Those who make and project policy and doctrine are fully aware of the average person's inablility to grasp anything beyond the immediate.

Iraq (this time around) was never about Iraq. It is not about Iraqis, WMD, Hussein, terrorism, freedom, tyranny, democracy, religeous extremism or Israel. But you carry on with the good bickering.

[Estel]

Originally posted by Suave
Yes I understand, your education was a lie. And the idea of any government motivated by altruism is so alien to you that it's simply an unacceptable idea.

Wow, maybe your eduation was better? Altruism and economical principals never could live together before. Looks like you are opening new era.
Do you know at least one country in the world, wich goverment or population is motivated by altruism? There is no one. Because for this historical moment it's impossible. And it will be impossible while there are religiouse or politial conflicts, rich people and starvated kids.
Your kind of altruism is Vietnam after agent-x. Your kind of altruism is bombed Serbia and broken Korea. Your altruism - Hirosima and Nagasaki. And every time your altruism becoming death. My view of "Altruism" is something else.

Nobody can be this stupid guys. I'm convinced he only says lunatic things like this to keep his job. It's sad, but some things haven't changed in russia.

It's very sad that you need to control what are you talking to keep your job.

Yep. There are some things wich can't be changed in Russia. It's because of our country is too old. And it's too difficult to change mentality in interests of agressors. But always this defend us.

Many russians are thankfull that we helped liberate them from the soviets, not you.

I don't know anyone. Maybe because they don't live here anymore? If yes, they can not name themself "Russians". And sure, have no any right to thank anybody for USSR crash.

You're either very weak minded, which I doubt. Or you're only saying things that you don't honestly believe because you're concerned about your personal future.

Our future is our country. I'm not sure, does "Motherland" mean something to. I'm not sure. Personal future is nothing without your nation.