Originally posted by Boroda
Toad, again the money for the fish.
This time in your one-way radio mode you answered your question yourself.
And again: USSR didn't invade Poland, it took back territory illegally occupied after 1920.
As for Russia being 2000 years old, Rjurik and Novgorod - Novgorod is definetly older then 862AD. And Slavonic tribes moved to Eastern Europe in the beginning of First Millenium AD. Kiev is AT LEAST 1500 years old.
Take these two gems for example.
Are you going maintain that the founding of a nation dates from the inception of a city?
Don't think so; takes a bit more than throwing up a few mud and log huts in one location to form a nation. Check around; find a reputable historical source that says Russian statehood happened before Rurik of Jutland.
Brief History of Russia and Famous Russians — from the 7th century till nowadays(Note this is a Russian site)
The first known East Slavic state emerged in 862 along the Dnepr river valley. Prince Rurik founded the state with the capital in town Kiev that is why the country was called Kievan Rus’.
Now to your claims of Russia retaking land that was originally theirs in Poland.
Let's look at this historically.
Russo-Polish War (1919-20), military conflict between Soviet Russia and Poland, which sought to seize Ukraine. It resulted in the establishment of the Russo-Polish border that existed until 1939.
Although there had been hostilities between the two countries during 1919, the conflict began when the Polish head of state Jуzef Pilsudski formed an alliance with the Ukrainian nationalist leader Symon Petlyura (April 21, 1920) and their combined forces began to overrun Ukraine, occupying Kiev on May 7.
In June the Soviet Red Army launched a counteroffensive, reaching the former Polish border by the end of July. In a wave of revolutionary enthusiasm, Soviet forces advanced through Poland to the outskirts of Warsaw (early August).
The western European powers, fearing that the Russians might succeed in establishing a Soviet government in Poland and perhaps proceed to Germany, sent a military mission, headed by the French general Maxime Weygand, to advise the Polish army. The Poles counterattacked in mid-August and forced the Russians to retreat.
An armistice was signed in October 1920. The Treaty of Riga, concluded on March 18, 1921, provided for the bulk of Ukraine to remain a Soviet republic, although substantial portions of Belorussia (Belarus) and Ukraine were ceded to Poland.
So, Ukrainian nationalist leader Symon Petlyura allies himself with the Poles and started a war with Soviet Russian.
The war ends in an armistice, and the Soviets and Poles sign the Treaty of Riga which cedes portions of Belorussia (Belarus) and Ukraine to Poland.
Now about the Treaty of Riga:
The Peace Treaty signed at Riga on March 18, 1921, gave real expression to Poland's sincere desire for a lasting agreement with Russia; it was not a dic-tated peace imposed by victor upon vanquished, but a treaty freely negotiated by men who sought a just solution that would afford equal protection to the interests of both Poland and Russia, and once for all liquidate the age old conflict between the two countries.
This spirit found its official expression in the preamble to the treaty itself, which stated explicitly:
"Poland on the one hand, Russia and the Ukraine on the other, desiring to put an end to the war in which they had been involved, and desiring to conclude a definite, lasting and honorable peace based on mutual under-standing, decided to enter upon negotiations with each other."
Then, of course, this:
When the new Soviet Constitution of July 6, 1923, called into being the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, the Soviet Government in its Note of December 14, 1923, addressed to the Polish Government, again confirmed all the treaties concluded by the various Soviet Republics before the creation of the Union, including the Treaty of Riga, and pledged itself solemnly to observe and fulfill them.
The preamble of the non-aggression pact, signed in Moscow between Poland and Soviet-Russia in July 1932, says:
"Considering that the Treaty of Peace of March 18, 1921, constitutes now as in the past, the basis of their reciprocal relations and undertakings have decided to conclude the present Pact ...
On May 5, 1934, this pact was prolonged until December 31, 194~ (and is therefore still in force).
On this occasion Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet Commissar of Foreign Affairs, delivered a speech in which he underlined the friendly and cordial relations existing between the two largest countries of Eastern Europe.
Finally, on November 26, 1938, a joint communique was issued by the Polish and Soviet Governments, the first paragraph of which read as follows:
"Relations between the Polish Republic and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics are and will continue to be based to the fullest extent on all existing Agreements, including the Polish-Soviet Pact of Non-Aggression dated July 25, 1932.
This pact has a basis wide enough to guarantee the inviolability of peaceful relations between the two States."
So, let's review:
The territories in dispute were ceded to Poland in the Treaty of Riga, a "definite, lasting and honorable peace based on mutual under-standing". In short, the Soviets AGREED to give the territory to Poland.
Then, in 1923, the Soviet Government addressed the Polish Government, again confirmed all the treaties concluded by the various Soviet Republics before the creation of the Union, including the Treaty of Riga, and pledged itself solemnly to observe and fulfill them.
So the Soviets REAFFIRM the ceding of that territory to Poland in 1923.
Nine years later in 1932, Poland and Soviet-Russia sign a non-aggression pact, once again reaffirming the Treaty of Riga and the ceding of these territories to Poland.
In 1934 the non-aggression pact is extended. No mention of wanting the territories back then either.
In 1938 the non-aggression pact is reaffirmed.
But then we all know what happened.
So.......... make your case that you "took back territory illegally occupied after 1920."
Illegally? Treaty of Riga? 1932 Non-aggression pact? 1934 Non-aggression pact extension? 1938 Non-aggression pact reaffirmation?
Looks like the Soviets acted illegally to me. Or do you suggest that the signataure of Russia on a document is worthless?
