Author Topic: Skuzzy - While on the topic of discussing new skins (Read 848 times)

Waffle · « **on:** February 09, 2005, 11:35:08 AM »

It seems that with the interest in skinning and the skills of skinners getting better with practice...not counting future skinners who come in....How are you guys planning on policing the 15 plane limit?

The reason I ask, is that it seems that the p38s are gonna fill up fast - granted theres 45 slots to fill of 38s, but it's going to happen - The p51d is already full, I believe.

Anyway - as the skinning community grows - It will only be able to support 15 skinners doing one skin/model at a time....

I don't think that we're close to that now, but we're getting there.

So my question is - should skinners limit themselves to one skin per plane? Or if they do more than one per plane type, should they expect them to get knocked out if someone else come in with an acceptable skin?

I guess it goes hand in hand with the new model/new rules and tougher quality control.

Will new skins that are better quality be accepted and replace older skins?

I guess with the new models, there needs to be new guidelines, and get those out in the open as you said in another thread.

Anyway - just a thought on the new skins/models....

And one more random thought:

About skins and memory issues -

How about incorporating skins into maps? So when on a certain map - and you choose a p51d - you see the "XXFS /XXfg by so and so" instead of default.

I'm sure that sooner or later we'll be at 15 maps - I'm not sure how many are in rotation now...but if AH ever got over 15 maps in rotation - that would be new slots for skinners to fill. - Maybe even just starting with the new birds?

Anyway -I thought it could be a good idea - that way the folks that disable skins would get to see new stuff every map - and then that would free up memory for more bells and whistles - wouldn't it? Might have to ask Pyro on that one.

I personally kind of like the idea after playing 2.02 with just default skins for a bit - even on the old xp64 - it seemed to have a little more get up and go.

Kev367th · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2005, 12:16:02 PM »

How about incorporating skins into maps? So when on a certain map - and you choose a p51d - you see the "XXFS /XXfg by so and so" instead of default.

This would be good if we ever got something like winter maps or theater specific maps. Only the skins relevant to the map could be incorporated, if this is possible.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2005, 12:30:43 PM »

Actually, you can include a skin for each model in the terrain, and they become the default skin, and still have access to the added skins too.

We would never do that for an MA terrain, but I can see it being useful for Special Events, CT, and TOD.

oboe · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2005, 01:09:22 PM »

Ah, now I understand why my request to give FG/FS information on the default skins won't work...

btw I don't like the idea of limiting ourselves to one skin per plane - its a lot of overhead work to set up the rivets, panel lines, etc - so I prefer to get 2 or 3 models out of my effort.

Also in the case of the P-51B - well no one else seemed to want to do skins for it, so why not do more than a few?

But I'm not at all opposed to having lower quality work replaced by higher quality pieces once the skin limit is reached however.

Just my thoughts...

Waffle · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2005, 01:42:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe

btw I don't like the idea of limiting ourselves to one skin per plane - its a lot of overhead work to set up the rivets, panel lines, etc - so I prefer to get 2 or 3 models out of my effort.

Say you did 3 skins for plane X,
I did 3 skins for planeX
Kev367th did 4 skins
Greebo did 2 skins
Citibria did 3
Guppy did 2
Airmess did 3 -

we're already 5 skins over the limit there.....

Who's skins gets cut?

Not to mention that I didn't included other skinners who put out good skins.

Would you want to be in HTC's skin when they get the email with the "Why is my skin no longer available?" and then tell them "it's been replaced for a New and Improved model"...... (ahh - the cruel world- lol!)

Waffle · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2005, 01:45:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Actually, you can include a skin for each model in the terrain, and they become the default skin, and still have access to the added skins too.

We would never do that for an MA terrain, but I can see it being useful for Special Events, CT, and TOD.

But would it free up resources if skins were built into various maps as "default" in the MA . With each map having a new unique set of default plane skins?

At least we wouldn't see any more "Skins have been disabled messages"

Wotan · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2005, 01:59:49 PM »

When I was still doing skins I suggested early on that folks restrict themselves to no more then 2 per plane type.

It might also be a good idea for each skin to get an in depth peer review before submission. I would typically post screens of my skins and ask for them to be critiqued. I found it very helpful not only in making my skin look better but in learning new techniques. The most you see in terms of peer review now is 'wow looking sharp' without much in the way of useful criticism.

This way only the best quality makes it through. I am not going to knock any ones effort but clearly some skinners are superior to others.

Maybe if HT or Skuzzy would appoint a Skin Team, not only to help out with new plane skins, but to serve as a review committee to filter out the best skin their/his job would be a little easier in getting new skins into the game.

This would help those folks who want to learn and improve with the constructive criticism their submissions would get.

If there are 15 P-38G skins the Skin Team can keep track and compare future P-38G submissions to those already accepted and help rotate in the better ones as they get submitted.

my 2 cents...

JB73 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2005, 02:08:06 PM »

as long as yellow 10 (someone's version) stays in the game i will be a completely satisfied customer! heheheh

oh yeah, after the remodel of the 190's red 1 must stay too (once someone makes one) LOL

oboe · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2005, 03:08:06 PM »

Actually I wouldn't expect an email if a skin of mine got bumped. Sending emails would just be more admin work for HTC to worry about. I'd rather submit my skins with the knowledge that they may be rejected or replaced by other skins at any time during their useful life. I'm OK with that, and that's why I started skinning the less popular planes (P-47D11, P-51B, old P-38).

In the case of too many skins for one plane, I would just expect HTC to choose the best 15 - considering quality but also ensuring a wide representation of theaters and fighter groups - no sense in having 14 of the 15 P-47D25 skins be from the 56th FG, even if they have alot of good subjects, you know? I've already had one turned down (and rightly so - Citabria did the same subject), and now my 3 old P-38 skins were made obsolete by the new 38 model. It really doesn't bother me much.

I think HTC has said they'll have a policy of rotating skins once they get too many for an airframe - it may be a simple thing for them to make sure the lower quality ones are rotated out first.
Its their game and livelihood, you know, so I'd expect them to make decisions to maximize the usefulness or quality of the skins. I won't hold any skin rejection decisions against them - to tell you the truth, I'm stoked that I got even one skin into the game! I'm a hack at skinning but I try to be mindful of improving my skill with each skin I do.

Wotan is right about the "Wow! Looking sharp!" factor - but since this is an all volunteer effort, its important to praise people for their work. I have been trying also to offer suggestions, though I am a long way from being qualified to critique someone elses work. But if I see a way to help I'll try.

I think there is some sort of 'skin team' coming - but their job will be to tackle default skins for the new planes coming into the game. It'll be a group of Experten, so maybe they could be looked to to provide reviews, advice and help to skinners also.

~~all I'm too longwided today.~~

Skuzzy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2005, 04:28:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Waffle BAS
But would it free up resources if skins were built into various maps as "default" in the MA . With each map having a new unique set of default plane skins?

At least we wouldn't see any more "Skins have been disabled messages"

The size of the terrain would be out of control if we did that. Right now, if all the planes/vehicles had the default skin built into the terrain, the terrain would start out at around 70MB's in size, and grow as we add new planes/vehicles.

Waffle · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2005, 04:38:54 PM »

oh no -

I meant one skin per plane per map....not having all of the skins built in.

so on Mindinao - you'd get a different "default" P51d than if you were on FesterMA - which would have a different player made "default" skin .

So you wouldn't have a choice of skin in game, but the skins would be spread out over different maps...

So say one of my 109f4s skins would be the default skin on one map - then a different 109f4 skin would be the default 109f4 on another map - on and on through out all of the MA maps