Author Topic: And he won't get the death penaly for this? (Read 12233 times)

gofaster · « **on:** March 03, 2005, 08:35:03 AM »

I used to be all gung-ho for the death penalty because I thought our system worked pretty good. After studying some cases where DNA cleared innocent men, I thought that too often the death penalty was given without absolute proof.

Earlier this week the Supreme Court ruled that criminals under the age of 18 can't be given the death penalty. I thought that was bogus - if there's absolute proof of guilt, then they should be executed. Murder should know no age limits.

And today I read this.

Quote

Teen Accused of Killing Tenn. Bus Driver

1 hour, 56 minutes ago U.S. National - AP

By GARY TANNER, Associated Press Writer

CUMBERLAND CITY, Tenn. - Joyce Gregory was about halfway through her morning school bus route when she stopped to pick up 14-year-old Jason Clinard. But police believe that instead of getting on the bus early Wednesday, Clinard fatally shot Gregory with a .45-caliber handgun, an act apparently prompted by an argument over Clinard's use of smokeless tobacco.

None of the 24 students on the bus, ranging in ages from 5 to 17, were hurt.

The shooting happened about 6:15 a.m. just outside Cumberland City, about 50 miles northwest of Nashville. Gregory, a 47-year-old married mother of two daughters, was picking up students and taking them to Dover Elementary and Stewart County High School.

Two weeks ago, Gregory told family members she was having trouble with students "dipping snuff" on the bus, according to her cousin, Jacqueline Reed. After several warnings, she reported them to school administrators Tuesday, Reed said. The 14-year-old suspect was among the students.

The boy had not yet boarded the bus when the driver was shot, said Jennifer Johnson, spokeswoman for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. Police would not say where the boy got the weapon.

Officials gave few details about the shooting and would not comment on a motive for the shooting. They also refused to release the boy's name, but neighbors, schoolmates and Gregory's relatives identified him as Clinard.

District Attorney Dan Alsobrooks said the suspect was charged with first-degree murder in Juvenile Court and was being held without bond. He said the boy could face adult charges as the investigation continues.

Public defender Jack Lockert met with the boy for about 45 minutes.

"I would characterize him as being in shock," Lockert said. "We obviously feel like he has severe mental issues. He's an A and B student and had never been in trouble before."

Clinard was taken to a juvenile detention center in Nashville and will undergo a psychiatric evaluation in the next 30 days.

Gregory was a teacher's assistant for four or five years and had been a bus driver for the past two years, said Phillip Wallace, director of Stewart County Schools.

"I lost a good friend this morning, so I'm hurt," said Bill Austin, a supervisor for Stewart County schools. "We're trying to do our level best to get our kids through this. That's what we've got to do right now."

Now two daughters will never see their mother again. A husband must raise his kids alone. And the most the boy will get is life in prison? I'm guessing he'll do 20 or so years and get out as a 34-or 40-year-old felon.

lazs2 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2005, 08:41:45 AM »

yep... he will be a 30 or 40 year old sociopath when he is released and probly live right next door to the next people he kills.

unless of course he kills someone in prison or the ward and then he will get antother 5 years or so.

lazs

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:13:10 AM »

A 14 year-old? I would be happy with life in prison, along with the person he got the gun from.

"None of the 24 students on the bus, ranging in ages from 5 to 17, were hurt."

It should be "WAS hurt". "None" is singular.

Trell · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:20:19 AM »

So we treat children as adults when they do something wrong?
But we keep telling them they are not adult enough to vote, drive, drink or smoke?

This is the biggest ****ing double standard there is. they need to have a single age for when some one is an adult or child.

If they are a child, treat them as a child, in both the court system. and in life. if they are an adult treat them like one. with all the perks and responsibilities

gofaster · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:28:57 AM »

Its one thing if you're protecting the child from themselves, but its another if you're protecting society from the child. If a kid commits a capital crime, they should serve adult sentences.

You don't suppose there's a newshound journalist out there asking the parents what kind of video games and rock music the boy listened to, do you?

Martlet · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:36:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Trell
So we treat children as adults when they do something wrong?
But we keep telling them they are not adult enough to vote, drive, drink or smoke?

This is the biggest ****ing double standard there is. they need to have a single age for when some one is an adult or child.

If they are a child, treat them as a child, in both the court system. and in life. if they are an adult treat them like one. with all the perks and responsibilities

They are children. They have all the rights and responsibilities of a child. Laws have penalties. Murder has a penalty. The punishment for murder shouldn't be age restrictive. That's why we have juries. A jury isn't required to hand down the death penalty. A jury examines the case, determines guilt, and determines the appropriate penalty.

It's not a double standard at all.

Staga · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:42:30 AM »

Do they use Zyklon-B when gassing people or is there some other, newer gas for that purpose?

Trell · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:50:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Martlet
They are children. They have all the rights and responsibilities of a child. Laws have penalties. Murder has a penalty. The punishment for murder shouldn't be age restrictive. That's why we have juries. A jury isn't required to hand down the death penalty. A jury examines the case, determines guilt, and determines the appropriate penalty.

It's not a double standard at all.

Sure it is, that is why they passed laws to alow childern to be tried as adults. it was not allways like that. and the choice has allways been with the prosicuters. They should not be in the adult legal system. they should be facing the family court.

Martlet · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:53:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Trell
Sure it is, that is why they passed laws to alow childern to be tried as adults. it was not allways like that. and the choice has allways been with the prosicuters. They should not be in the adult legal system. they should be facing the family court.

The choice is with the prosecutors now. A child doesn't HAVE to be tried as an adult. It's an option.

Like I said. It's no double standard.

Trell · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:54:12 AM »

What other group of people in this country. could we make sure are not alowed to vote, yet. pass laws to gas them for making mistakes. and claim they are not responisible to have rights the right to vote. and chose what they believe is right, but claim they know whats right when they do somehting wrong.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:57:21 AM »

Do a google on the name David Kyle Gilley. If you want more details, include the words: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, Laura, and Salmon.

The crime in question was committed 6 weeks before his 18th birthday.

He went free for 17 years afterwards. They've had over THREE YEARS of appeals BEFORE he's even been tried.

Tell me he shouldn't be tried as an adult.

Martlet · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:59:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Trell
What other group of people in this country. could we make sure are not alowed to vote, yet. pass laws to gas them for making mistakes. and claim they are not responisible to have rights the right to vote. and chose what they believe is right, but claim they know whats right when they do somehting wrong.

I don't even understand what you've said.

ESL, perhaps?

bunch · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2005, 10:35:22 AM »

Y'all must be a lot of "strict disciplinarians" if you know what i mean. No need to be so harsh. Boys will be boys.

Chairboy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2005, 10:51:19 AM »

I think it's obvious that the real culprit here is the fact that he was forced to catch the school bus at 6 AM in the morning. No jury will convict him, once they find that out.

Allowing the death penalty on a case by case basis for people who are not yet 18 is consistent with other parts of our society. On an individual basis, some minors can become emancipated and acquire many of the same rights and responsibilities of someone older then they are.

As long as the process of determining eligibility to die examines the accused and doesn't focus on the crime itself, I think this will fit our current definition of justice. That said, I remain uncomfortable with the number of people executed and later found innocent. Even one is too many. As our science progresses, our standard of evidence for execution should increase too. If our technology and justice system cannot deliver a slam dunk, then the person should be locked up.

Trell · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2005, 10:51:28 AM »

Sorry that's what happens when I try to do to many things at once.

My point is that the country is afraid of its children. and we have caused this on our selves.

We imprison parents for disciplining there children.
and we pass more laws to be harder and harder on child criminals.
We execute people who commit crimes when they are children. when they are just messed up kids. rather then trying to fix children we execute them. All in the name of public safety, and people agree because people are afraid of there own kids.

Marlet, Are you the same person as you were when you were 11?. have you changed your ideas of the world and your self during your life

Looking back to when I was a kid, my head spins on what I thought was cool or even interesting. something of the stupid things I did. some days I am amazed I did not get hurt more. I believe I was one of the better kids too.
Now a days I could have been brought up on terrorism charges, for playing with blackpoweder as a toy.. would I do this anymore?. no, but I know better now then when I was 15.
But there are lots of people I know that were into drugs when a kid. and have turned there lives around. I don't like the idea of ending a child's potential because he screwed up big time as a child. Children make mistakes, sometimes very big mistakes. and I hate the double;e standard we have for children.