Author Topic: I don't think this will be in "The Armed Citizen" (Read 3047 times)

bustr · « **Reply #135 on:** March 16, 2005, 03:25:56 PM »

Beet,

Bet your lady freind does not walk alone around Lake Merrit after dark, or venture down town Oakland on foot alone after dark either. She has had to modify her life style in responce to what all inhabitants of the Lake Merrit area knows happens after dark here.

I live a 5 minute walk from Lake Merrit. 15 minuets from the places you photographed. Your first picture looks like its from on top of the Grand Lake Theater. Nice safe upscale neighborhood boardering on Peidmont where homes average $350K-$1M. The local police harras homies if they stop their cars any longer than for stop lights. Middel class Liberals live their who pay for protection. I live at the other end of the lake. Cops take up to 20 minutes to show up if you dial 911.

Two weeks ago less than a mile from my house 2 homies robbed freinds of my girlfreind at gun point when they stepped out the back of the building they work in. We have a gang of homeless pan handlers who hang out at the 7/11 a block from my house and every morning drugged or drunk out of their minds on the public steps that grant access off the hill I live on. And there is a nice church and public school just across the street. Yesterday morning as I was heading to public transportation one of them decided he had to kungfu anything that moved near him. Guess he got the DT's. He left a wake of smashed garbage cans and car windows in his path. Getting into a scuffel with him or someone like him is a potential chance of getting AIDS. COPS around here wear gloves while arresting them.

I live on the border of where it transitions out of predominatly white middel class to the beginnings of predominatly minority. I live alot closer to the 60% you mentioned. And yes alot of antisocial activity takes place. And untill you live it here full time, I'm not being very melodramtic. I don't think your views on how we can all get along in this world is going to have an effect on any of the homies I have to interact with living in Oakland. Chances are they would either shoot you or pound you into the pavement for grins and giggles.

beet1e · « **Reply #136 on:** March 16, 2005, 04:43:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Anyway, a carless Britain may pave the way for a true "internet commute" economy for the whole world.

Think of the lives saved by getting rid of unnecessary cars...no more drunk drivers either!

Go for it.

It can't be done. Not even T Blair with his 160+ majority in the House of Commons could railroad through a mandate against private cars. He did however succeed in banning fox hunting with hounds! That was easier because it's an unnecessary activity. And guns - no problem at all. The 1997 gun "ban" legislation went unnoticed by most, myself included, for the simple reason - guns are unnecessary, and could only be needed for criminal activity. A million moms cannot be wrong!

As you know, I have never suggested that America should give up its privately owned guns. There are enough Americans already doing that! And I don't think it would be so bad - might take you a week or two to get used to it though. But hey - you could always find another hobby.

Bustr - give me a day or two, and I'll find out the situation from my Oakland ladyfriend. I hadn't realised that I was photographing from an upmarket residence. But perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised.

Toad · « **Reply #137 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:01:02 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
It can't be done.

[/b]

Same can be said about removing the Second.

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Originally posted by beet1e
As you know, I have never suggested that America should give up its privately owned guns.

[/b]

No, you just natter on endlessly about how superior it is in England to have extremely restrictive gun laws and a handgun ban.

Endlessly.

beet1e · « **Reply #138 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:04:25 PM »

...and every gun thread we have, you get nervous at the thought of the bogeyman taking your guns away. Keep your pants on.

Toad · « **Reply #139 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:07:41 PM »

How wrong you are; my bones will be dust, my children's bones will be dust before they ever even try to repeal the Second. It'll fail then too.

So I'm not nervous in the least.

Not going to let your specifically designed and unnecessary BS pass without comment however. Can't let featherheaded pseudo-reasoning like that just go unremarked.

beet1e · « **Reply #140 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:10:23 PM »

Oh it's not featherheaded pseudo-reasoning; it's the considered judgement of MANY a government of western countries around the world. And it works well. And the stats bear witness to that.

Toad · « **Reply #141 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:12:57 PM »

...and that's a featherheaded reply that shows you really don't have any idea what's being discussed.

beet1e · « **Reply #142 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:15:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
...and that's a featherheaded reply that shows you really don't have any idea what's being discussed.

oh, so you're saying the governments of all the unarmed euro countries plus many others are all wrong? I think not. A cursory glance at the FACTS settles that.

Vulcan · « **Reply #143 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:40:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
I enjoy every single one of those as well.

And, I get to enjoy yet another which is just as sweet.

Or take a pistol out to the range and go plinking.

Guess it sucks to be living where you do

Nice, but ummm I can do either of those in NZ as well. Looks like I'm not missing anything

Vulcan · « **Reply #144 on:** March 16, 2005, 06:00:15 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that vulcan, beet and nashwan etc.. are products of their super socialist liberal countries propoganda about guns.... they really know very little about the subject so simply look at numbers and such.

When these people get on this board and explain their gun banning agenda... I can't help but feel that the American here

LOL, I'm a gun user you tard. In fact, when I was a little un down in the South (Island) my dad would go salmon fishing and I'd take my .22 pump action Browning out rabbit hunting every weekend. Right throught to my late teens I was in the air force cadets and regularly went to the range, and used military firearms (M-16s, SLRs). My uncle owns an antique gun collection including a walking cane shotgun and some huge calibre "elephant" gun he uses to vaporise possums. I guy I worked for for many years owned a pistol collection which he let me use at a local range. Oh and when I was a teen my father kept a pistol at home (fully licensed) because of the nature of the job he was in (involving access to large amounts of cash) he was considered a high risk for kidnapping.

I don't advocate banning of guns in the USA, only an idiot could conceive that would be possible (I've said that many times). What I do question is the twisting of facts I quite often see by the pro-gun guys here, especially when quoting overseas figures and statistics, I do question why you need to own some of the weapons you do (and so many?), and I do question why there isn't some sort of licensing regime similar to our own.

I also sometimes get the feeling that a lot of the pro-gun group can't fathom what its like to live in what they would term a "gunless" country.

And finally I do question the hypocracy of the cry "don't infringe freedom" by many of the pro-gun group here with regards to their rights to own a small armoury that some 3rd world countries would be envious of.

If I were an American ciitizen my stance would simply be:
- ban the unnecessary firepower (you know what I mean)
- license firearm owners by requiring them to pass a test exhibiting fundamental firearm safety knowledge

And if I lived in the USA, yes I would own a firearm (I only own an air rifle and air pistol here in NZ to keep myself in "aiming" practise).

Would that place me in the middle ground? If so does that confirm some of you as extremists and how do feel about that?

Toad · « **Reply #145 on:** March 16, 2005, 08:17:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
oh, so you're saying the governments of all the unarmed euro countries plus many others are all wrong?

No, I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. Quite a different thing.

Toad · « **Reply #146 on:** March 16, 2005, 08:18:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
Nice, but ummm I can do either of those in NZ as well. Looks like I'm not missing anything

And looks like I'm not missing anything!

Great for us, eh?

Toad · « **Reply #147 on:** March 16, 2005, 08:21:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan

If I were an American ciitizen my stance would simply be:
- ban the unnecessary firepower (you know what I mean)
- license firearm owners by requiring them to pass a test exhibiting fundamental firearm safety knowledge

And in conceding that ground, you would insure that you would eventually suffer a ban because NOTHING you do will ever satisfy the antis.

There is no middle ground because the antis want it all.

Vulcan · « **Reply #148 on:** March 16, 2005, 09:14:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
And in conceding that ground, you would insure that you would eventually suffer a ban because NOTHING you do will ever satisfy the antis.

There is no middle ground because the antis want it all.

I think the idea is by taking things to a "middle ground" you reduce the number of anti's to the point they become ineffective - as has happened in NZ on many subjects.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #149 on:** March 16, 2005, 09:27:39 PM »

Vulcan,
Why is that you can trust people with some guns and not others?

Why are "those" guns so bad?

If you can trust someone you trust them.