F6F vs Ki84 and P38s.

[TexMurphy]

Im now on my 4th plane that Im trying to learn.

So far ive flown Yak9U, SpitV and SpitIX in chronological order and learned them pretty well, at least for a relativly new pilot (still not more then 6 months of duty).

My next plane Im trying to learn is the F6F.

Reason I choose the F6F is that I want to learn flap management. The Yak thought me alot about gunnery (due to low ammo count), the spit V alot about turn fighting and the spit 9 e-fighting. Another of the reasons I choose the F6F is that it doesnt have a "safe option" in either turn or speed.

Im starting to come to terms with my hellcat now after a few nights of extreamly embarasing performance. Still struggle abit with its dive accelleration and my timeing but Ill manage that on my own.

What I do need help with is "wtf do I do" with certain planes.

Especially what it comes down to is the Ki84 and the P38s.

From what I can tell the only thing I got on the Ki84 is dive. We are equaly fast, it has better accell (not counting dive), it can turn me and it can climb me. I dont like just diving away from em as I want to do something more creative and destructive to them. Question is what and how??

Next thing is the P38s. Im a bit of a question mark here. Partially due to the fact that I know very little on the performance of the new P38s.

As I understand it I got speed on the G model and it has turn on me. No reall problem I guess just deal with it as a spit.

But what about the J and L???? As I understand it its basicly a dead heat with these planes except that they got climb on me. Is that correct??

Is there something I have on these planes that I can exploit? Im thinkin roll rate, even though crap on the Hellkitty, could be a advantage.

I know it aint as much about what you face but who you face but I do like to have a general plan on how to deal with different planes.

So Id really like strategy tips on how to deal with 84s and 38s in a F6F.

Thanks in advance.
Tex

[GooseAW]

The cat can outturn the 84 at speed and should loop better at that same higher speed.

The PJ should be a pretty even match all around but the P38L is easy prey unless you've got a really good stick in the cockpit.
Remember how the P38s compress. I've made many a P38 lawn dart chasing me to the deck.
 

The F6 is a great plane once you get the feel for it.

[Redd]

Hiya Tex


Both are close and tough fights for Hellkitty , as you have probably found.


Ki-84 is difficult, your only real advantage is high speed turn performance , the Kitty handles better at speed , so get in there while you are fast and kill him quickly. No point being timid he can run you down , and easily outclimb.

Everything else the KI-84 does better by quite a stretch. A smart KI-84 driver will just climb all over you from a co-e position.


The fight against a well-flown 38 is quite even until the 38's superior zoom and climb can make a long fight swing more  in favour of the 38. It retains E much better and will wear you down in the vertical.  If the fight gets flat you may have a chance , altho he  will have a slight sustained turn advantage.

Again try for a very fast initial encounter , you will handle better at high speed than the 38.


They would be the two planes that  can trouble you most in a Hellcat in 1-1 performance.

[Redd]

lol  just read goose's , looks like the answer is speed !


Probably why my favourite merge in a hellcat is always to go in fast - as fast as you can . Speed gives you some good merge options in the Hellcat.

[TexMurphy]

From your (redd and goose) answers and your previous tips (Redd) I take it that consealing my E in the merge is very important against these planes.

If I conseal my e in the merge I am more likely to prevent him from using the vertical right? Or at least Im able to work the vertical more then he expects if I choose to do so.

But then Im assuming Im in a at least co-e situation with him. That is another area I really need to work at and one which flying the spits has made me a bit sloppy with. The spits beeing able to build energy so fast allowing me to be reactive to low energy situaitons instead of proactive.

Tex

[Engine]

As an 84 pilot, seeing an F6F only worries me because some excellent pilots like Redd fly them routinely.  Ki84s eat F6Fs alive, unless the F6F plays very aggressively while the speed is high.  If you let me evade long enough to bring the fight slow, you're either dead or you're about to run away.  The most dangerous F6Fs know that after I evade a pass (and almost all can be evaded provided speed is between 225-350) I can rebuild E quickly, so they get back on me very quickly.  Other than that little worthless knowledge, you're best off listening to Redd.  Gimme a shout on the Synergy forums if you want to play around a bit in the DA.  Would love to try some 1on1s where you have a good E advatange on merge.

As a final option, you can always get away if you have some alt. Only a foolish Ki84 pilot will dive after an F6F and risk losing his elevators.

[TexMurphy]

Id love to have a shakedown with a uber Ki84 pilot like you Engine.

So far Ive found that the best way to learn is to go up against extreamly good pilots in the DA. Its extreamly painfull but if one constantly tries to improve in that situation one will come out a much better pilot in the MA.

Tex

[Engine]

Ain't that the truth! There's only so far you can go in the MA. I know I've reached my plateau. Really good 1on1s with great pilots are rare, and as a result, when I do meet them I sometimes get lucky but usually get worked over and don't learn much from it besides "Wow, I screwed that up by assuming they were a newb".

Set a time Tex, I'm workin from 9-5pm EST. Have some bacon at your girl's house and stay up all night, we'll do it.

[TexMurphy]

Was soo much easier when you where an unemployed bum...

With my new job there is just no way I can do late nights at week days anymore. So I guess we will have to do it during a weekend.

Tex

[Engine]

Only weekend day I have free is Sundays, usually in the afternoon which I think is about 7pm-12am your time?

[Soulyss]

250 to 300mph is the sweet spot for the f6f.  It can hang with just about any plane in the game at those speeds.  You can tangle with better turning planes like spits and come out ahead, but you gotta get your shot quickly and not miss or your in trouble.  Against planes like the spitfire and Ki-84 the longer the fight lasts the harder it will be to walk away from.  

Someone else mentioned it but something I always try to do is go into the merge packing at least 300mph of speed with me.  It'll let me go left/right/up/down do whatever I want.  You can also take advantage of the fact that the hellcat can burn E at a remarkable rate, chop the throttle and you can get the nose around in a hurry, this is great against less experienced pilots as it can sometimes spook 'em into doing somthing stupid.  Gotta warn ya though it will suck a LOT of E in the trade.

I'm not a hotshot sitck around here, plenty of guys that can whoop me good and proper, but I do have  a lot of time in the hellcat if you have any questions that I could answer give a holler.

[wetrat]

F6F vs a good stick in a Ki84 in a fight below 300mph, you're going to lose. If you have some alt, dive a bit with him chasing you, and make a hard horizontal turn (do NOT immel against an 84), hope he tries to follow you, go vertical and come back down inside his turn for a snapshot. If you get down to low speeds and you don't have an advantage, you better hope he a) can't hit a damn thing, or b) has absolutely no throttle management. Don't follow an 84 vertical, they go up and up and up and up... and up. And then up some more. Your best bet is to give him your 6 at high speed and make him overshoot, since Ki's lose elevator authority at high speeds and as a result, don't bleed E too fast.

F6F vs. a 38 is probably a little more even... you pretty much only need to outfly him, and just avoid going vertical with them.

[DamnedRen]

Don't go verticle with the KI unless you have the energy to do it. All you gotta do is make him break hard once or twice and you can take him up all day long. 85% of the KI draivers around want to slow you down. Just force him slow while you stay fast and the shots will come.

[Engine]

If an F6F makes is a BnZfest and keeps extending, I make it my mission to build up enough E to get him to commit.  

Ren, here's the problem with staying fast;  the Ki84 builds up energy superbly at low speeds, so if you don't get on me quickly after your pass, I can build up at least enough E to evade your next shot. I'd attempt to keep turning into you until you blow all your E trying for a shot.  Eventually I'd get pissed off enough to take it personally and work hard for E parity.

Aside for being extremely aggressive, or BnZing indefinitely (worse option), I really don't know what else the F6F can do against a Ki84. Then again, I'm not the bestest F6F pilot, so what do I know?  

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by wetrat
F6F vs a good stick in a Ki84 in a fight below 300mph, you're going to lose.  

never think this!

even if you know who the ki84 pilot is, and if you think he is a good pilot. Never enter a fight with the assumption he is better than you. Regardless of speed, always think , I can do this, I can beat this guy.

and follow the tips Redd, Goose, wetrat, Ren and others suggested. but never give in to losing before you ever get thru the 1st turn of the engagement. Regardless of who the other guy is flying the ki84,  breaking the mindset of "he is better than me" is an important plateau to overcome!

Anyone can be better than any other on any given day!  Regardless of the plane match-up