Dora pointers

[Bullethead]

straffo said:
And can you back your affirmation with fact and data ?

I have a book, Red Star Volume 5, Yakovlev's Piston-Engined Fighters, by Yefim Gordon and Dmitriy Khazanov, that gives all kinds of cool info on all types of WW2 Yaks from original Soviet and factory sources.  This is what it has to say about the 9U's redlines.  This is actually from the chapter on the 9P, which was a 9U totally made of metal, whereas the 9U had a metal wing spar with wood skin and mostly wood ribs.  

From page 99:

... thanks to (the all-metal wing), the (9P's) indicated airspeed in a dive could be increased from (the 9U's) 650kmph to 720kmph (404 to 447mph), and the maximum G load in recovery from a dive was brought up to 8.0 instead of 6.5.

What happened with 9Us if they got much above 404mph IAS was they started shedding hunks of wing skin, with usually fatal results.  This was a problem shared by all wood-wing Yaks dating back to the prototype.  The 9P didn't have this problem, however, because of its all-metal wing.

In the game, however, you can get a 9U to about 600 IAS without any harm done.  Not only that, but while it starts buffeting from compression, the controls still work after a fashion, at least much better than those of other planes.  Thus, the 9U can out-dive every plane in the game simply because of its immunity to most of the compression problems that affect other planes.  And you can't break anything unless you pull over 8 Gs, which is rather above the historical redline G noted above, too.

Anyway, that's the data I got.  The 9U seems to be able to go much faster, and pull higher Gs, than it could in real life.  I'm not so concerned about the G loading, but the excess speed, especially because it ignores the compression effects that make other planes stop accelerating and totally lock up at considerably lower speeds.  That to me is a bug, which is why I refer to the 9U as porked.

[OOZ662]

Originally posted by Bullethead

• It's very durable.  It can usually take a few cannonballs and keep on going with nothing showing in CTRL-D.  It can also survive collisions.  You can, for instance, run a wingtip into most other planes and come off missing just an aileron, whereas the other plane might lose a wing.[/B]

The collision model in this game isn't modeled on the actual impact, but rather a who-done-it scenario. The game compares who had a better chance of avoiding the collision and punishes them more severly.

If you can make the game think you aren't trying to collide with people, your rank will be -3000000

[straffo]

Bullethead you are speaking of build quality not aerodynamism/design

I've to go but I'll check my ref. later .

[Naudet]

Bullethead sums it up very good.

But i might at one thing or two.

Going over the top is extremely tough with the Dora as its almost impossible to make a clean wingover or hammerhead, i would not go with that move for any rope. If a con was so stupid to follow you up and you see he won't be able to close the distance and you want to go over the top, just do this. Keep the nose vertical until you reach around 160 IAS, than extend 1-2 notches of flaps and give really only a tad back pressure. Than the D9 will fall over its cockpit. Its really important here to let the plane literally do it itself. To much elevator input and you stall out.

The Dora can even be extremely deadly in furballs at beer bottle height. I really love it to take of from an AF with a large furball around, roughly even numbers and many many spits, nikis and other TnB planes. The trick here is to stay fast and use the exellent accel and roll the Dora provides you with.

For defense in emergency it can necessary to reduce speed to absolute  minimum flying speed. I advice you to practise it. Go to the DA or TA, and fly circles with full flaps and ~100IAS. It works, you have to reduce throttle somewhat, because otherwise the D9 won't stay that slow. Handle the elevator with care. Once you manage to fly multiple 360°s to both sides, try out scissors at minimums speed.
If you get used to them, it can save your budd once in a while, especially against LA7s, P51s and G10s.
Ask Redd, although he kicks me around in the DA all the time, i atleast could show him how slow you can get a D9 and still be in controlled flight.

@Bullethead: I have to try that out with the low-yo-yos. Do you reduce RPM while doing it. Cause i fly the Dora almost exclusively but i can't maintain ~400mph on the deck using low yo yos and WEP.

[JB73]

using the full flaps, and being 100 (or even a touch under) you can really shock some pony poilts who think they are untouchable with flaps down low.

[Grits]

Yup, what 73 said. You dont want to do it in a furball with a bunch of Spits, but the D-9 can be slowed down and turned quite well. Because it accellerates so quickly, that gives you the ability to take the risk of slowing down, and build back your E in a short time.

[Naudet]

Grits, its one of the funnierst thing you can do in a furball against spits/Niki (as long as Levi isn't among them).
They just don't expect a FW190 to slow down that much and you will force lots of overshots that way.
Sadly i always forget to record my flights, otherwise i could show you some fun guncam footage.

But i would not recommend that for everyday use of the Dora.

[JB73]

Originally posted by Naudet
Grits, its one of the funnierst thing you can do in a furball against spits/Niki (as long as Levi isn't among them).
They just don't expect a FW190 to slow down that much and you will force lots of overshots that way.
Sadly i always forget to record my flights, otherwise i could show you some fun guncam footage.

But i would not recommend that for everyday use of the Dora.

i sent morpheus a film of just that, made an n1k2 overshoot among others, supposedly he's working on the film.

it's a great example of a typical sortie in the MA for me

[CPorky]

Its really unfortunate, I think of La7s on a higher level than 99% of the 190 drivers in the MA. At least the La7 driver attempt to fight, the 190 drivers aren't that interested.

I'm hoping there is a resurgence of good 190 flying following the new models being released. If not, re-doing them was a complete waste of effort, imho.

[JB73]

people like you whine that the 190 wont stay and turn fight your spit or whatever, knowing full well their plane is not designed to twist around on the treetops.

every time you find a spit that wants that there are 5+ other cons in icon range, and if the 190 were to get "down and dirty" they'd be bounced by the 5 other spits that come zooming in.

if the 190 extends up, the poor wittle spitoon dweeb screams bloody murder that the 190 is afraid to fight or some other nonsence BS on CH200 or in the forums.

just because not everyone wants to fly their 190 like a moronic fool and get killed by your twisty plane dont whine here, just shut up and go fight a n1k or something

this thread is about helping others learn more about the 190, and you come in here just top bash it and the people who fly it.

go away unless you have actual comments aiding the discussion

[Grits]

Originally posted by Naudet
Grits, its one of the funnierst thing you can do in a furball against spits/Niki (as long as Levi isn't among them).
They just don't expect a FW190 to slow down that much and you will force lots of overshots that way.
Sadly i always forget to record my flights, otherwise i could show you some fun guncam footage.

But i would not recommend that for everyday use of the Dora.

I do the same thing, but I try to give people good advice, and avoid tellng them  to do the stupid things I do.

[CPorky]

I loves you too  

(of course, you know I'm right)

The last really good 190 flyer I saw that mixed it up was Wilbus. What ever happened to him?

Originally posted by JB73
go away unless you have actual comments aiding the discussion

[straffo]

Originally posted by Bullethead

In the game, however, you can get a 9U to about 600 IAS without any harm done.  Not only that, but while it starts buffeting from compression, the controls still work after a fashion, at least much better than those of other planes.  Thus, the 9U can out-dive every plane in the game simply because of its immunity to most of the compression problems that affect other planes.  And you can't break anything unless you pull over 8 Gs, which is rather above the historical redline G noted above, too.
 

I tested and got the same result (provided the testing method was good)
Strange.
I did test also the 51 and was unable to  pull up.

[Bullethead]

OZ662 said:
If you can make the game think you aren't trying to collide with people, your rank will be -3000000

Rank is for scorepotatos.  The object of the game is to beat the nme, either by killing him or totally frustrating his plans.  If I can dance on the heads of 8 nmes upping a 100% field, and keep them all there and low, I keep them from going off and porking 1 of my fields.  So even if I don't fire a shot for 20 minutes and rtb sans fuel with full ammo, I'm happy.

As to collisions, I set my guns at 200 and try to stay at about 400 knots during my firing passes.  With the icon ranges now being guestimates, I accept the fact that I'm going to ram a target once in a while.  But Hell, if I didn't, I'd be shooting from too far away to be effective .  It's this type of collision that the Dora survives quite well.

[Bullethead]

straffo said
Bullethead you are speaking of build quality not aerodynamism/design.

Dive a bunch of different planes into compression.  You'll note that they all behave differently.  They all reach a different speed before they stop accelerating, they all lock up the controls at different speeds, and they all start shedding different parts at different speeds.  Therefore, I assume HTC is attempting to model not only compression effects but structural strength.

No Yak-9 with a wooden wing could go as fast as AH's 9U and remain in 1 piece.  I don't care whether the aerodynamics would let it, which I seriously doubt because the 9U did NOT have a laminar wing (just 1 experimental model did, but no production models).  So first off, I think there's a bug in the 9U that gives it a pass on compression.  Second, even if aerodynamically it COULD go that fast in theory, it simply wasn't built strong enough to take the stress.  That's not build quality, that's inherent weakness of the design.  The 9U should lose major wing pieces long before it reaches the speeds it can in AH.  This happened in real life to all types of wood-wing yaks, including hand-built special models and prototypes lovingly built with Stalin breathing down their necks, so it wasn't the fault of shoddy workmanship at relocated factories manned by conscripted peasants.