Author Topic: Nearly 2 years later  (Read 2014 times)

Offline SLO

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2005, 05:26:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Actually, France, Germany and Russia made more off of Iraq than anyone else.   I never said he was a threat to the US.  The above countries had more "Interest" in Iraq.  The gravytrain ground to a halt.  

Oh, at least you are trying to save face on the free health care.  LMAO, you guys have to wait 6 months to get a physical.   Shovel more watermelon SLO, you do it better than anyone else.

Karaya



Who controls the OIL now, you get the 1st answer...too easy I say...

and NO I've never waited 6 months...get this, I actually live here and know HOW it actually works, unlike you I don't get second hand info on this subject, so please refrain from making yourself look even more ignorant...

Offline straffo

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2005, 05:32:15 AM »
I think Saddam was partly responsible.
As low as 0.1% I don't think so as high as 100% I don't think so either.
The thruth is somewhere... don't count on me to say where :)

Offline Momus--

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2005, 06:21:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Actually, France, Germany and Russia made more off of Iraq than anyone else.   I never said he was a threat to the US.  The above countries had more "Interest" in Iraq.  The gravytrain ground to a halt.  
Karaya


Yup, and the US never ever buddied up to a despot when it suited their commercial interests. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.  :)

Offline SkyWolf

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2005, 06:57:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
A better question would be

How many Americans give a rat's bellybutton what a canadian thinks?


I do..... oh wait.... no I don't.  :D

Woof

Offline SkyWolf

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2005, 06:58:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
Who controls the OIL now, you get the 1st answer...too easy I say...



 We do... that's why our gas is so cheap. :rolleyes:

Woof

Offline -dead-

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2005, 03:41:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
UN inspectors verified that certain amounts of chemical weapons and their precursors existed. Now they cant be found, OR verified as having been destroyed. Your link proves what? It does nothing to prove the non existence of these items. Maybe those items were destroyed, maybe not. There is no proof either way.

A quote from your link:

 

Repeatedly throughout the chemical weapons part of your link it talks about Saddams efforts to maintain the ability to resume his WMD programs as soon as the sanctions were lifted. There is nothing in your link that would lead me to believe Saddam WASNT trying to hide things from the inspectors.

In light of Saddam's efforts to hide what was left of his WMD programs, unless you can show proof that everything was destroyed, imo you have to believe those unaccounted for items still exist.
If the ISG doesn't have a vested interest in finding significant (or even the rather smaller sounding "certain") amounts of unaccounted for chemical weapons, then who does? And yet they say after a couple of years of searching with infinitely better access to the country and the key personnel than the UN inspectors, that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. If the people with the biggest vested interest in finding WMDs and proving Saddam was hiding them have admitted defeat, I suspect there is absolutely compelling evidence that there are no WMDs left. That's actual compelling evidence, not the flimsy nonsense the US & UK used as an excuse to invade.

I note the goalposts seem to be fashioned from finest Birnam wood - as they've upped and moved completely in the second part of the post — we started out with significant amounts of chemical weapons, which have seeemingly shrunk to certain amounts, and now to Saddam retaining the ability to start up his WMD programs again when sanctions were lifted.

This last is a lot more wishy-washy: who can actually say one way or the other if he retained his WMD-making ability or not, seeing as he did not attempt to rebuild it? lest we forget, this is from the same lot that claimed he had WMDs ready to go. Pardon me for treating this with an extra side salad of cynicism. Also his initial WMD programs relied heavily on the US & UK governments' support: would he still have that? And if he had not retained his WMD experts, by killing them off or letting them go to work for the highest bidder, the US & UK would be the first to cry foul.

Either way, the issue of him possibly retaining the ability to make new WMDs after sanctions is a far more tenuous excuse to invade, which — let's face it — is what the whole WMD issue is about. The rest of the UNSC wanted UNMOVIC to check thoroughly before anyone said Iraq had WMDs or not; and the US & UK could not get a resolution to invade because of that. Iraq actually having hidden, viable WMDs was really the only semi-valid political/legal reason to pre-emptively invade.
β€œThe FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline Elfie

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2005, 03:44:07 PM »
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And after billions and couple of years of searching, interviewing, researching etc. ISG has determined that that the WMD were destroyed by the mid 90's. Do you have information that ISG wasn't privy to that makes you question thier findings? If so I recommend you contact the CIA asap.



Even the ISG only assumes the chemicals were destroyed. They found no hard evidence to support that claim.

Yes, chemical and bio weapons do have a shelf life. How long that shelf life is depends on the type of chemical weapon and the purity of the chemicals used in making them. IF none of these materials are found in the next 10 - 15 years, then I will believe they were possibly destroyed in the mid '90's, then I will no longer care if they werent destroyed since even the most optomistic shelf life will be expired.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2005, 03:58:41 PM »
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That's actual compelling evidence


Just because people give up looking for them does not constitute compelling evidence  imo.

Quote
we started out with significant amounts of chemical weapons, which have seeemingly shrunk to certain amounts


Just different wording used to describe the same quantities of unaccounted for munitions/precurors.



Quote
This last is a lot more wishy-washy: who can actually say one way or the other if he retained his WMD-making ability or not, seeing as he did not attempt to rebuild it? lest we forget, this is from the same lot that claimed he had WMDs ready to go.


It's not from the "same lot that claimed he had WMDs ready to go". Your ISG source clearly states how Saddam was trying to preserve the basics of his WMD programs. He retained scientists in-country, he kept detailed records of dual-use equiptment, kept dual-use research going.

In fact, Saddam at one point asked his scientists how quickly they could set up to produce mustard gas again. The answer was 6 months, 3 - 4 days if they didnt mind sacrificing the equiptment. Again, from your ISG link.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Momus--

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2005, 04:07:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Yes, chemical and bio weapons do have a shelf life. How long that shelf life is depends on the type of chemical weapon and the purity of the chemicals used in making them. IF none of these materials are found in the next 10 - 15 years, then I will believe they were possibly destroyed in the mid '90's, then I will no longer care if they werent destroyed since even the most optomistic shelf life will be expired.


Can you name any biological or chemical agent that was produced by Iraq prior to the verified destruction of their respective production facilities that wouldn't already have been past it's shelf life in 2003?

Offline Elfie

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2005, 04:17:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Can you name any biological or chemical agent that was produced by Iraq prior to the verified destruction of their respective production facilities that wouldn't already have been past it's shelf life in 2003?


Yes, both VX gas and Mustard gas would still be viable, depending on the purity of the chemicals used to produce them. The VX gas even with the purest of chemicals will have it's shelf life expire soon I think. Mustard gas can remain viable for much longer. The precursors that are unaccounted for could be used to make *fresh* munitions iirc.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Masherbrum

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2005, 04:43:21 PM »
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Originally posted by airbumba
Don't know where you get your info sir, but it's way off. My ma's just recently retired from 45 years service as nurse/ hospital dir./ adm./ government liason to health issues , etc, etc. and I've never heard of any numbers like you suggest, nor has she.

We'd  both be quite interested in reading any official report you can find that says that, my mother is very curious as to it's author.


Cool.   Here goes.  A buddy's father complained of pain near his "kidney area".  he went in, they told him and I quote "Your appointment is in six months".  Three days later he was in the Emergency Room with Kidney Failure.  

It's flawed, worse than some care to admit.  

Karaya
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Offline Steve

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2005, 05:08:23 PM »
Dunno about healthcare.... I dig Canada.  Love to fish there.


Bumba, how's that project comin along?  Good to see ya.


SLO...... hand......... hey bro.   :)
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Offline Thrawn

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2005, 05:13:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
It's flawed, worse than some care to admit.  

Karaya



Compared to what?

Offline Masherbrum

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2005, 07:02:30 PM »
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Compared to what?


Take yer pick.

You guys wanna start bashing threads.  Take some medicine and like it.

Karaya
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Offline Steve

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Nearly 2 years later
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2005, 08:08:28 PM »
Masher, you know I side w/ your politics mostly and agree w/ your views....  and I mean no offense but Thrawn didn't start this thread.

I know you don't like foreigners bashing the US and neither do I... fact is Canada is  probably the next  best thing after the US, has more fishin(sirry I love to fish), and has a nice standard of living.  
Ever bag a Canadian chick?  They aim to please.
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