A few religious question for catholics.

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by WMLute
Why is that?

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by WMLute
Thought I covered this.  I shall go slower if it's required.
 

Actually I was replying to Grunhurtz, who was trying to frame an argument that I did not believe people should pray on behalf of others.

And yes, you answered my questions and it confirmed to me my opinion that the Catholic church has incorporated rites and rituals into their teachings which have no relation to the bible or the teachings of Jesus.

Go ahead with your personal attack style of argument though, if you want.

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
the Catholic church has incorporated rites and rituals into their teachings which have no relation to the bible or the teachings of Jesus.

You yourself have no proof that the bible you read actually reflects the teachings of Jesus.

You take that on faith but you could be wrong and the Catholics could be right.

Like it or not.

However, I do think it's folks like you that give Christians a bad name.

It's laughable that you believe a loving God would condemn aborted babies to eternal damnation, would condemn those who never heard of Jesus through no fault or inaction of their own to eternal damnation.

That is not the God I worship, I assure you.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Toad
You yourself have no proof that the bible you read actually reflects the teachings of Jesus.

You take that on faith but you could be wrong and the Catholics could be right.

Like it or not.

However, I do think it's folks like you that give Christians a bad name.

It's laughable that you believe a loving God would condemn aborted babies to eternal damnation, would condemn those who never heard of Jesus through no fault or inaction of their own to eternal damnation.

That is not the God I worship, I assure you.

Toad, I simply have faith and the bible is what I believe to be the word of God. Faith is exactly correct. Also, I do not believe in things that any church creates ( as far as teachings) that have no validation in the bible. That's all.

And as I answered you before, I said that I didn't know what would happen to someone who has never even heard of Jesus after they died. I said that it has always interested me and that I would hope there is a way for such people to have the option to accept Christ after they have died. I can look up my exact answer in this thread, but that's basically what I typed in reply.

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
I only know that the only way into heaven is to accept Jesus as your savior.

Originally posted by NUKE
No, the only people that will go to hell are those who do not accept Jesus. Pretty simple.

Originally posted by NUKE
I believe that anyone who does not accept Jesus as savior will go to hell.

THIS is what you said.

Now, please explain how you don't know what would happen to someone who has never even heard of Jesus after they died.

There's only two possibilities here.

1. They have not accepted Jesus as Savior and will go to hell.

2. Aborted babies and/or remote aboriginies somehow accept a Jesus they have never heard of at all.

Why don't you explain how one actually "accepts Jesus as Savior" in an "approved by Nuke" fashion (wouldn't want the Catholic version, now would we?)? Perhaps just tell us how you did it... speaking out loud, secret handshake, proclaiming it from the mountaintop...whatever.

And THEN tell us how you think an aborted baby might do the same.

Thanks.

[NUKE]

Toad, I already asnwered you twice now. I said I do not know what happenes to people who die and have never heard of Jesus. I said that I felt God was fair and just and that maybe these people have a chance to accept him or not after they have died. I also said that interests me. I honestly do not know.

Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raiseth him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

I personally addmitted that I was a sinner, admitted my sinful nature to Jesus in prayer ( I do this a lot) and accepted (out loud) from within my heart my belief that Jesus came, died for my sins and was risen again from the dead.

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
Toad, I already asnwered you twice now. I said I do not know what happenes to people who die and have never heard of Jesus.

[/b]

Of course you do. This is what you said, remember?

Originally posted by NUKE

I believe that anyone who does not accept Jesus as savior will go to hell.

That's what your bible tells you, does it not? And clearly, aborted babies have never accepted Jesus in the approved biblical fashion. Nor have the amazonian aborigines beyond the reach of civiliaztion's missionaries.

I said that I felt God was fair and just and that maybe these people have a chance to accept him or not after they have died.

[/b]

But that's not in your bible is it Nuke? And, as we all know... if it's not in YOUR bible... well, it just isn't at all.

I also said that interests me. I honestly do not know.

[/b]

Don't be tiresome Nuke. Of course you know. Your bible TELLS you the answer and you've posted it repeatedly.

"I believe that anyone who does not accept Jesus as savior will go to hell."

Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raiseth him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

[/b]

See, there you go. How will an aborted baby confess with its mouth the Lord Jesus? Can't be done.  Same for our Amazonian Aboriginie. Can't be done.

Zip, off to hell they go by your own words and choice of biblical quote.

I personally addmitted that I was a sinner, admitted my sinful nature to Jesus in prayer ( I do this a lot) and accepted (out loud) from within my heart my belief that Jesus came, died for my sins and was risen again from the dead.

Now how do you expect an aborted baby to do that Nuke? How can an Amazonian Aboriginie admit he's a sinner if he has no concept of sin? How can an aborted baby accept out loud from within it's heart if it's mouth and tongue are not formed enough to speak?

Zip.. off to hell with 'em. By your own statements and biblical quotes.

So you KNOW that's where they're going Nuke.

That's the god you worship? That's not my God, I assure you.

[Wotan]

Originally posted by Toad
Please tell me that you just went to Stormfront to clip and save time typing.

Are you referring to me?

The info my post comes from this site:

Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. John

Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, by V.Potapov

[NUKE]

Toad, the bible does say that God is fair and just, but does not specifically address what would happen to people who have never heard the word of God.

[Toad]

IIRC, it doesn't specifically address the Rosary either now does it?

[Toad]

Originally posted by Wotan
Are you referring to me?
 

That's a relief. The same text is posted on Stormfront, a white supremacist site.

I sure don't always agree with you but you've got one of the better debate capabilities on this board.

Glad to hear you're not using that capability for David Duke!  

[SkyWolf]

Originally posted by NUKE


Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raiseth him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

I personally addmitted that I was a sinner, admitted my sinful nature to Jesus in prayer ( I do this a lot) and accepted (out loud) from within my heart my belief that Jesus came, died for my sins and was risen again from the dead.

SkyWolf 9:6-7 "That if thou shalt die then thou shalt be no different from the opossum, rabbit, or other roadkill. For the man that believeth shall be as dead as they, and just as odiferous. Thou shalt discover that dead it dead, there is no afterlife, and humans are no more important in the big scheme of things than ants or roadkill. Thou aren't going anywhere after death except into a hole in the ground where thou shalt rot and be worm food.  

Woof

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
but does not specifically address what would happen to people who have never heard the word of God.

But it does specifically address what happens to those who do not accept Jesus as their saviour.

So, by default, people who have never heard the word of God fall into the "non-accepter" category.

Off to hell with 'em, Nuke.

No choice. Your bible tells you so.

[Wotan]

Originally posted by Toad
That's a relief. The same text is posted on Stormfront, a white supremacist site.

I sure don't always agree with you but you've got one of the better debate capabilities on this board.

Glad to hear you're not using that capability for David Duke!  

Doh, nope just the top of page 2 on a google search


EDIT
The link is porked but just search 'Orthodox Church'.

[Drunky]

I didn't read everything but I'm going to offer my experience with Catholics.

Most of these experiences are with Mexicans BTW.

A lot of the people that I knew and hung around had Virgin Mary tattoos on them somewhere.  One guy had a very cool mural on his back.  But they also like to get drunk, smoke weed, talk about fornicating (nice word for ****) this girl and that girl, talk about the fighting they had done, maybe even a murder they had done, and say, 'Golly-geemit'.  You could say, 'God is dead' or 'God sucks dicks' or 'Jesus wore dresses and smelled like a gnome."  NO response.  They might even laugh and buy you a beer.  Mention the Virign Mary and things were different.

Even if you didn't say anything directly offensive, it might have even seem implied, and they would threaten to hit you, cut you, or kill you for desecrating the Virgin Mary.

I remember being in a bar with several people and one guy was talking about being wacked out of his mind the other night and screwing this girl and leaving her and she might be pregnant but he didn't care but he had a Virgin Mary tattoo on his forearm and a leather wrist band with a cross on it.  I thought this a strange contraposition of belief and actions but it was typical.

Someone mentioned something about the Virgin Mary and IT was ON.  Throw down right there between the pool tables.  Surprised the feces out of me.

From my experience...you cannot say that Catholics dont' worship the Virgin Mary in some fashion.  I'm not saying ALL Catholics do this but in my experience certainly some do.

Shrewd questions come to mind:

It seems that Catholics tend to ask the Virgin Mary for help with prayers rather the Jesus or God.  Why?

Isn't God and Jesus pretty bad ass?  They are GOD and the SON of GOD.  Yes, Mary gave birth to Jesus.  But isn't she just a vessel for the spirit of God?  A subheading under 'The Big Cheese'?

When you think of the Holy Trinity do you think of God, Jesus, and the Virgin Mary?  or do you think of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit?

You don't hear about Catholics seeing the face of Jesus under an overpass and visiting it.  Why?

If I go into my local grocery store I find tall more candles in glass containers with the picture of the Virgin Mary than Jesus.  Why?

The Catholics that I know have the Virgin Mary tattooed on them but none have a picture of Jesus tattooed on them.   Why?



I'm sorry if this offends.  That is not it's intent.  I've have read some of what has been said in this thread and I simply offer what I consider to be experience contrary to what has been.

My questions are also not meant as a troll or flame.  These are questions that I have had for some 14 years plus and I would be curious to hear ACTUAL answers...not some defensive tripe.

Wotan, for one seems, both knowledgeable and in control of his emotions enough to answer accurately and informatively.