A Freakin .22 ..................

[Midnight]

Part of the problem in this whle thing is the damned liberal political idiots in this country. If it were not for them, there wouldn't be laws prohibiting parents from properly disiplining their children...

By proper disiplin, I mean a good swift kick in the ass. Teachers need to be able to do the same. If kids were scared of getting in trouble, they would be a lot less criminal.

I mean,, what can you do to your kid now if he acts up? Tell him to go in "time out" by sitting in the corner for a few minutes? Yeah, OK.. what if he tells you to go F$ck yourself? You can't smack him because the kid will be in foster care and you will be in jail for child abuse.

The whole US law system is so screwed up because of liberals defending the rights of morons. Of course there are always bad eggs, but if the law delt with them properly, everything would be just fine.

More gun control will not work.

Midnight

[TheWobble]

 

By proper disiplin, I mean a good swift kick in the ass

Yup exactly!, all this crap ya hear like "dont punish yer child, let them express themselves" yea whatever, but then when this undiciplined child shootes a classmate its not his or his parents fault..nooo its the GUNS fault.  These stupid MORONS have thier hads so far up thier tulips that they dont know left from right.  their basic line of thinking is.:

"Dont punish yer kids, dont dicipline them either, let them do what they want, dont teach them right from wrong, if they kill somebody..blame the gun they use, its the guns fault.  If the gun wasnt there the kid would have been a model citizen."

[pzvg]

Ah sorry Dowding, y'see us good ole boys from
"Down Souf" Jawja ways,gots us a probleme

We'uns don' talk like them thar yankee fellers.

So's you'd be forgivin ifn usn's punc-choo-ation ain't xactly right, ya heah?

 
very tongue in cheek, but yes on occasion, I do actually speak that way, depends on the audience.

------------------
pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[Yeager]

I got my first "gun" when I was 6 It was a red rider BB gun
================
Be careful with that thing, youll shoot your eye out!

Eagler, our society is fediddleed up beyond repair.  It will take a total rebuild as far as I can tell.  The price for that rebuild is likely more than most are willing to pay so lookout for european totalitarianism in your local state and federal government.  

Its on its way! Whee!

Y  

[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Sandman_SBM]

 

Originally posted by Midnight:
Part of the problem in this whle thing is the damned liberal political idiots in this country. If it were not for them, there wouldn't be laws prohibiting parents from properly disiplining their children...

By proper disiplin, I mean a good swift kick in the ass. Teachers need to be able to do the same. If kids were scared of getting in trouble, they would be a lot less criminal.

I mean,, what can you do to your kid now if he acts up? Tell him to go in "time out" by sitting in the corner for a few minutes? Yeah, OK.. what if he tells you to go F$ck yourself? You can't smack him because the kid will be in foster care and you will be in jail for child abuse.

The whole US law system is so screwed up because of liberals defending the rights of morons. Of course there are always bad eggs, but if the law delt with them properly, everything would be just fine.

More gun control will not work.

Midnight

Horseshit. I don't beat my children. I used to swat them when they were very young and did things that were life threatening such as playing with electric sockets but stopped when I realized that beating them served only one purpose, venting my frustration.

Children do not obey because of fear. They obey because of respect. If they don't respect you, no amount of beating will change that.

Granted... Child protection laws are extreme. No argument but I absolutely disagree that beating is the one solution. It's not that simple. I think it's far more important to have a parent at home with the child instead of having both out in the workforce. Of course, this is also a simplistic view and there are no doubt other solutions possible.

Is there really a problem? Not according to the Justice Department records. Teen violence (per capita) is lower now than it has been in fifteen years (or more). The media would have us believe that are children our out of control. It's roadkill. The fact is... all increases and decreases in teen violence per capita is in gun related violence. Violent acts among teens that don't involve guns has been stable and relatively unchanged for 20 years. Are there more acts of violence today then 20 years ago? Absolutely. The population is larger. Are we at greater risk? I don't think so. The media would have us believe that we are in danger. Fear sells advertising.

I refuse to live in fear.

[Maverick]

Sandman,

There is a difference between beating and spanking (corporal punishment). The way I read your post (I think) you equate them the same. If that is not true then please let me know.

As far as the respect issue is concerned, I agree up to a point. Many kids are taught that they are expected to have high "self esteem" and will be given praise and recognition for virtually no reason other than to boost it. This means they really didn't do anything to deserve it. Now they expect recognition and promotion for nothing at all. It has become a "right".

Quite a few kids are also taught by parents and other kids that they cannot be touched by any adult. I have seen kids in elementary school tell a teacher to go to hell and then tell the teacher they can't do anything about it. I have seen kids attempt an assault on a teacher and then remind the teacher that they can't touch or hurt the kid. They also know quite well the threat of a law suit.

When a teacher complains to a parent about the behavior of the child the parent tells the teacher the child has the right to express themselves. This encourages more aberrant behavior on the part of the kid.

These situations are not conducive to the student learning any respect for their teachers or school.

I am not an advocate for corporal punishment in school per se, but I do think that the past system had more control over the kids in the school than exists now. In my own curmudgeonly way I still believe that some problems are best dealt with at the seat of the pants of the individual in question.

I am not a parent who has had to spank often. I recall only twice where I had to swat my son. Both were before he was 10 years old. I didn't enjoy it but it did solve the behavior problem. My son knew why he was punished at the time he got swatted and he got the swat at the time of the bad behavior. I am a firm believer that punishment must be directed at the behavior and that the child must understand why the punishment is rendered.

Mav

[AKDejaVu]

 

There is a difference between beating and spanking

EXACTLY! I beat my dogs.. I spank my wife.  Completely different things.

  Sorry.. just couldn't resist.

AKDejaVu

[Jekyll]

 

it isn't about the gun he would have used another weapon if not a gun anyway,

Sorry, but when I read stuff like this I just gotta jump in.  OK, so if he didnt have a gun he would have used something else, right?

Like what?

A knife, a machete?  You think he would have been able to kill two students and injure a dozen more with a knife or machete?

Guns dont kill people:  People WITH GUNS kill people!

[Yeager]

Well jek,

He could have rigged a propane tank up pretty easy, a pipe bomb or made a napalm
rig.  He could have plowed a car through a bunch of kids in the parking lot.  Just surf the web using keyword *bomb*....

Yes, a gun is very easy to use but as usual all you folks miss the mark entirely.  I mean utterly completely.  Killing for no justifiable reason is the root problem.

Why kill for no justifiable cause?  go figure......

Y

[TheWobble]

 

A knife, a machete? You think he would have been able to kill two students and injure a dozen more with a knife or machete?

Not to sound sick or evil but i think that in a large crowd of people i could kill way more then 2 people with a something like a fillet knife before anyone knew what was happening, and then when they did IF they tried to stop me there would probably have to be 4 or more people attacking me at the same time form all sides to not get chopped up really bad in the process.  
Its a fact, a screwed kid is a screwed up kid.. weither he has a gun, knife, BOMB or whatever.

Jekyll,
basically yer post is saying that the guns are the problem, not the fact that the kid has enough problems to want to kill his peers.  

Its kinds fruity to say  "The problem isnt that the kids want to run around killing people, its that they might get a gun"

Here is how it works.
You leave the criminal/distubed person, and take away a weapon (gun) he will find another and the problem will NOT be solved.


You remove the criminal or "cure" the disturbed person, and the need to eliminate the weapon ceases to exist.

Taking away guns because some criminals and crazies may use them in a act of violence, is like taking away cars because a drunk or high person may decide to drive one.


By attacking the guns you IGNORE the real probelem AND punish the people who have done nothing wrong.

[Dowding]

Pzvg - "down south" in the US, equates to "up North" in England. You know, supposedly backward, closeted communities, out of step with modern society. With a strong dialect and accent.

I'm from 'up North'.  



[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 03-08-2001).]

[Mk10 225th]

But, wouldn't it be said more like, "Uhp Nawf?"

Mk

[Mighty1]

It's the same mentality that comes up with an excuse to blame someone else besides the person who actually committed the crime.

How many times have we seen a murder/rapist who's defense is that he was abused when he was a kid so it's not his fault he killed/raped those people? How many times does that defense work? To many!

Making the blanket statement that guns are the problem does nothing to help solve the situation. We need to have a solution that could work in a short period of time. Banning guns will not happen in this lifetime so we need to look else where.

There are things we can do to make our Schools safe but we won't do them because they cost money. We could have Security guards, Metal detectors, Random searches, Drug testing.... but we don't.

Some Schools will have 1 or 2 of the above but they don't do them all because most either don't have the money or like in our case our Administration is so afraid of being sued they won't even let us put student names or pictures on our web pages.

Hell we even had a kid who was a known drug dealer kicked out of school only to be let back in when the Father threatened to sue!

If people are so concerned about kids in school they should be willing to fork out more money to put in the security measures required AND force the Administration to enforce the rules.

[Dowding]

More like "Uhp Norf".

The "Narf" bit is more likely to come from a nancy southern boy, SwoopGb being a good example.  

"Facking 'ell - it's bladdy bunch o' 1-O noins!"


[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 03-08-2001).]

[Cabby]

Quote:

"Hell we even had a kid who was a known drug dealer kicked out of school only to be let back in when the Father threatened to sue!"

And THERE is one of the MAIN reasons for the sorry-ass condition the Public Schools are in today.

That young "drug-dealer's" so-called "Father" should be in thrown in jail(along with his Lawyer) or at least given a good caning.  Then fine the crap out of both of them for bringing a frivolous lawsuit.

The inmates are running the asylum in the USA these days  

Cabby