A gun question for those that know better...

[storch]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Sorry, but when the s**t hits the fan, S&W's reputation is miles above Taurus or Ruger's.   IMO, you get what you for.  Guns are the one thing a do not "Want bang for the buck" (no pun intended).  

Karaya

I have a taurus model 85 2" that is always left in my truck's tool box (and it looks like it) the revolver was a trade for something or other I can't recall now years ago and was well worn when I got it.  every now and again as I'm out in the rural areas I'll set up some boxes about 25yds away and fire 5 then reload fresh factory +P .38.  it has never failed to perform flawlessly.  just so you know taurus was S&W, they purchased the tooling and plant from S&W in porto alegre, rio grande do sul brasil.  while ruger and S&W are fine weapons manufacturers the taurus wheel gun is every bit as good in quality and much better as far as price and programs go.  I could take that well worn subject .38 and trade it in for a new taurus .357 and taurus would give current new value for it no questions asked.  try that with a smith or ruger.  I also own a ruger security six in .357 6" and an S&W model 642 in .357 3"  the security six has sentimental value as it was a friend's who has passed on.  I rarely shoot it.  when his boy is old enough I will give it to him to keep.  the 642 rides in the cab with the A/C and XM radio, it is after all, a smith and wesson

[lazs2]

now some of you are getting into the king arthur myth area... All autos jam... the best you can do is practice clearing the jam or simply hope that the 1 in  100's of rounds that jam is not the one you needed... that is most likely what will happen... autos jam when they are "held wrong"  ever notice that auto that you have that has never ever never jamed on you flips the bird and strovepipes when you let a friend shoot it?  either he holds it too tight or not tight enough.

revolvers will jam... It happens mostly on single actions or moon clip guns... when something drags on the recoil shield it could jam... mostly you can force one more shot or so by pulling bak the hammer while pulling the trigger... also...old smiths used to have the ejector rod "unscrew" from recoil and make it impossible to open the gun...  all of these "jams" are even less likely than an auto jaming.

There is no auto that is as powerful and concealable as a smith 340 pd.   The 357 in 125 hp  is more powerful than any +++++P 38 round in any length barrel

The 357 is still king for one shot stops... the 44 mag in certain loads and conditions is much better but... .40's and .45's and others using the right ammo are all very close (whithin a few percent)

I have a PPK... heavy and bulky for the power and complex and outdated.

I have a Kimber in 45 that I would trust but... if I had to carry every day.... the 340pd would be the 90% of the time gun... with winter clothes and expecting touble.... My cut down despured 44 mag or kimber... nightstand.. Kimber because of the 44 penetration and.. the kimber has tritium sights.

lazs

[Curval]

Just curious....have any of you guys ever shot at a person?  No hidden anti-gun agenda, just an honest question.

[lazs2]

that is a rather personal question curval.   Do you ask soldiers for instance if they every killed civilians or cops if they shoot people...

I think it is kinda rude.

I think a more relevant question and less rude would be... "Have you ever stopped a crime or prevented someone from getting hurt using a firearm?"

It doesn't matter if you shoot or not or if anyone is shot.   The gun did it's job if it stopped the problem...  sometimes it means shooting or.... shooting back but... that is irrelevant unless you are just morbidly curious in a walter mitty kinda way (or worse).

lazs

[storch]

Originally posted by lazs2
that is a rather personal question curval.   Do you ask soldiers for instance if they every killed civilians or cops if they shoot people...

I think it is kinda rude.

I think a more relevant question and less rude would be... "Have you ever stopped a crime or prevented someone from getting hurt using a firearm?"

It doesn't matter if you shoot or not or if anyone is shot.   The gun did it's job if it stopped the problem...  sometimes it means shooting or.... shooting back but... that is irrelevant unless you are just morbidly curious in a walter mitty kinda way (or worse).

lazs

spot on Lazs

[Curval]

Well, I've read a few posts here about some people using their weapons.  

Fine...apologies for "being rude" on this BBS.  Forget I asked.  

Lazs...it is only "more relevant" if that was the question I asked and you were trying to argue your gun logic with me.  It wasn't the question I asked and I don't want to argue with you.

[Maverick]

Curv,

Rather poor taste there. I think Laz covered it pretty well.

FYI I have been in more weapons drawn situations than I care to recall. Two of them stand out.

One was a guy starting to use a small 3lb hand sledge hammer to kill my buddy while we responded to a disturbance call at a popular college bar. Kids all around and we were very reluctant to shoot even though we had more than sufficeint justification. Problem was that we likely would have had other casualties as the ammo tended to over penetrate. I was in process of pulling the trigger when my buddy jumped on the guy in my line of fire. We ended up going hand to hand with a hammer wielding hemorhoid who stated he was going to kill us. My buddy and I had a few words about line of fire and stuff as I was bloody scared that I almost shot him.

Second was a guy who had just stabbed me 3 times while I was arresting him. I was lucky as the vest I wore stopped the rather broad bladed knife. Had it been a dagger or other severely pointed weapon it would have penetrated. I was in a down town park with old folks all around and facing a rather slightly built but rather insane street person. Another Officer and I ended up going hand to hand with him. I got the knife hand, she got the other one. The fight went through part of the park and into the street before I got him cuffed. The female Officer wasn't a whole lot of help and this guy was incredibly strong. When I searched him, I covered the trunk lid of a Chevy Nova with pointed and bladed weapons he had concealed on his person. It was winter and he was layered up in more ways than one with the outer layer being a GI field jacklet.

All the other situations I was able to defuse without having to get that serious so I got freaking lucky that I don't have to live with the memory of shooting someone.

Does that give me enough credibility for you here now?

[Curval]

Mav, I am not looking for credibilty, I simply asked a question.  Thanks for your response.  I am not at all interested in getting into another gun debate.

[lazs2]

" I am not at all interested in getting into another gun debate."

considering your ability in said debates... Iwould say that you are making a wise decision in avoiding them.

lazs

[Curval]

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Dago
If he is convinced that he wants to use an outdated handgun with limited capacity, he might as well just get a 22.

Todays autos are so superior to revolvers it isnt funny.   The 357 isnt the greatest round either.

I personally would recommend something along the lines of a Sig P226 in .40 SW.

dago

I would hope that you aren't serious.

First, the .357 Magnum 125 grain jacketed hollow point is ballistically superior to ANYTHING you can put in a 40 Short & Weak. It is not even close. The only commonly carried handgun cartridge that compares well with the .357 Magnum 125 jacketed hollow point is the .45 ACP 230 grain jacketed hollow cavity, AKA the flying ashtray. Those two rank at the very top of the "one shot stop" category. The 40 Short and Weak isn't even close, at least not in ANY study I've seen, and I looked not too long ago, since I still have access to the same reports that the DoJ and most law enforcement agencies use.

Second, when it comes to personal defense, you don't need more than six rounds, most incidents are over in less than four shots.

Third, the Sig Sauer is a great weapon. Get a P220 in 45 ACP.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The .357 Magnum is a good round, I prefer the 125 grain jacketed hollow point +P version myself, Federal makes a
nice one.

Despite having one as a duty weapon (it was a 686 Distinguished Combat Magum 4") I prefer to avoid the S&W weapons.

Ruger makes a number of very fine .357 Magnum revolvers. I prefer them as well as a good Colt.

In the proper holster, a 4" is as easily concealed as a 2", and far more useful.

While revolvers are inherently more accurate than self shuckers, a good self shucker is plenty accurate for personal defense.

All things considered, a revolver is also inherently more reliable than a self shucker of the same quality. Fewer moving parts performing fewer functions and operations.

Self shuckers are also easier to carry concealed, since they are flat, slab sided, and shorter, given the same barrel length.

HOWEVER, I STRONGLY suggest you avoid single action self shuckers such as the vaunted legendary Colt 1911 pattern. Do not get me wrong, I LOVE those guns. But they must be COCKED before they will fire, and confronting ANYONE with a cocked single action weapon leaves you VERY vulnerable to all sorts of criminal and civil actions. Carrying a single action self shucker is best left to seriously dedicated personnel. It (the 1911 pattern weapon)was never designed or intended to be used in a civilian environment. It was specifically designed to kill large numbers of ENEMY SOLDIERS as quickly and efficiently as possible. It does that well. But it is NOT the weapon for the inexperienced nervous civilian AKA the NDP (Non Dedicated Personnel).]

The Para Ordnance LDA is available in several versions for personal defence, and it is VERY good for that job. It combines the near divine perfection that John Moses Browning achieved when he gave us the Colt 1911, with the double action safety of the modern weapons world.

With a 45 ACP, the 230 grain jacketed hollow cavity is the best round, CCI-Speer is the most popular.


The secret to concealed carry for personal defense is to get the right weapon/holster combination for the INDIVIDUAL, and extensive practice and training. Find the weapon that best suits the inividual (the prerequisite being that it can be carried and concealed on the person carrying), and then find the holster that conceals it well but makes it available. Then train, and practice. If you are not willing to practice the draw and firing at leastonce a month, you probably should not carry. And do not forget to have a skilled gunsmith tune ANY weapon you purchase for personal defence. Do not be fooled by the Bravo Sierra, a good personal defence tune up INCLUDING a PERSONAL DEFENCE action job will NOT make you subject to more criminal or civil liabilities. The key being the action job done with personal defence in mind and not a target trigger action job.

Carrying concealed is exercising a right as a citizen that carries great responsibility and duty as a person and a citizen. Approach it in that manner and everything will work out as well as possible.

I hope that helps, and good luck to your brother.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I would hope that you aren't serious.

First, the .357 Magnum 125 grain jacketed hollow point is ballistically superior to ANYTHING you can put in a 40 Short & Weak. It is not even close. The only commonly carried handgun cartridge that compares well with the .357 Magnum 125 jacketed hollow point is the .45 ACP 230 grain jacketed hollow cavity, AKA the flying ashtray. Those two rank at the very top of the "one shot stop" category. The 40 Short and Weak isn't even close, at least not in ANY study I've seen, and I looked not too long ago, since I still have access to the same reports that the DoJ and most law enforcement agencies use.

Second, when it comes to personal defense, you don't need more than six rounds, most incidents are over in less than four shots.

Third, the Sig Sauer is a great weapon. Get a P220 in 45 ACP.

I will second the Sig 220. Owned one for 12 years now, thousands of rounds through it, leave rounds in the factory mags year round and the springs last forever, and the gun never fails to fire.

[Scooter]

Best kind of gun for carrying is one you WILL carry period.

Get a full size toy revolver with a 4 inch bbl and try to carry it for a day.. a week, I bet you will soon find out that C.C. of a firearm is really a ***** day in and day out. I have had a CCP for 12 years and when someone tells me they also have a CCP I ask them to show me what they have on them right now, 99 percent of the time they need to go to the car to get the gun. The big deal is, if you are serous about carrying you must carry it all the time.

I have carried a SIG P220 i (a .45 auto) a PPK a Ruger Sec. Six with a 4"BBL and a Taurus Titanium .38 with a 1 3/4 bbl. They all get old in a big hurry and you tend to leave them in the car.

Weight is a BIG factor and the carry rig you have is also important.

I now slip in my pocket with my pocket knife every morning a KelTec .380 loaded with 7 rounds it weights less then my car keys and is smaller then my wallet.

http://www.kel-tec.com/p3at_pistol.htm

If you get one of these put 200 rounds through it to break it in before you put it in service, I have found it to very reliable. The .380 is the bottom line for defence, power wise but better then yelling at an bad guy.

The important thing it is for close up last resort use only, I know its limitations and it is good for nothing else, but it is with me every minute of the day every day.

For your first fire arm for learning and versatility I would recommend a 4" inch stainless 357 with good grips and use .38 spl for low cost training and fun and 140 grain silvertips by Winchester for defense.

My two cents

Regards

[Maverick]

A superior firearm is one that is available to you in time of need and one that you can hit with. Anything else is mere bells and whistles.  You can't miss fast enough to make up for a single well placed hit. If you can carry it effectively and you can hit with it reliably including under conditions of stress then that IS a superior weapon, for you. A round that strikes home is far better than many whizzing past.