Author Topic: A gun question for those that know better... (Read 2541 times)

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #60 on:** June 29, 2005, 02:22:40 PM »

I don't know about you guys, but I'm a nail driver with my Smith and Wesson Police Special .38 special revolver. That bullet goes exactly where I want it to go.

lazs2 · « **Reply #61 on:** June 29, 2005, 02:29:52 PM »

gunthr.. I don't live in Florida... I watch police train here for 4 different agencies..

Do they train that women on shotguns by standing behind them and propping em up so they don't fall down when they fire?

The swat guys train like you are talking about here.

I am not near the shot I was when I was younger but I can beat at least 99% of the cops that come through here.

lazs

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 29, 2005, 03:38:11 PM »

Afraid I have to agree with Lazs, no disrespect to any police officer intended. The marksmanship of most of the HPD is a running joke here, barring the few who shoot "off the clock" with one or more of the various gun clubs on the island. Even they admit the average police officer couldnt hit the broad side of a barn from more than 10 yards away. Some cities may train the officers harder than others, and I commend them for doing so. I've seen it in more than one place though. I've shot on the same ranges the police qualify on in 3 different cities, and in all 3 it made me glad I was born with decent hand/eye coordination and know how to shoot a gun properly.

Gunthr · « **Reply #63 on:** June 29, 2005, 05:00:55 PM »

Quote

Do they train that women on shotguns by standing behind them and propping em up so they don't fall down when they fire? - Lazs

LOL thats a whole different topic - women cops. I take the 5th on that.

In Detroit I've seen a female terminated for cowardice. She confronted a burgler, she drew her weapon but her hand was shaking so much the burgler took it away from her and ran away. I've also seen a black female officer in Detroit trying to qualify at the range with her attorney present because she still couldn't do it after repeated, mutliple attempts and her job was on the chopping block. Pathetic. They (women) resort to lethal force much quicker than males because they can't fight without the upper body strength and stamina, and when they do draw, they can't shoot, most of them.

Gunthr · « **Reply #64 on:** June 29, 2005, 05:12:47 PM »

It is a shame about those agencies that don't do quality firearm training. But many do train for survival and tactical beyond "marksmanship." The Hollywood bank robbery with automatic weapons and shoot outs like the one with the 5 FBI agents in Miami with the two bank robbery suspects with the assault rifles vs. revolvers had its effect in this business. I know one of those agents who survived and is now an assistant SAO in Broward County prosecuting public corruption. Hanlon is his name. There was a lot of inertia and outdated equipment and training in the past, but things are changing in the progressive agencies. Why should the special teams be the only ones with survival training?

mauser · « **Reply #65 on:** June 29, 2005, 06:20:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Afraid I have to agree with Lazs, no disrespect to any police officer intended. The marksmanship of most of the HPD is a running joke here, barring the few who shoot "off the clock" with one or more of the various gun clubs on the island. Even they admit the average police officer couldnt hit the broad side of a barn from more than 10 yards away. Some cities may train the officers harder than others, and I commend them for doing so. I've seen it in more than one place though. I've shot on the same ranges the police qualify on in 3 different cities, and in all 3 it made me glad I was born with decent hand/eye coordination and know how to shoot a gun properly.

Wow... that inspires confidence

But I guess I'm not really that surprised. Comparing the mentality of PD brass in a state like Florida or Texas to that of California or Hawaii would probably be like night and day I assume.

I definitely would have come for the last public range day / fair at Koko Head if I had heard about it (nothing on TV.. hmmm....) and wasn't already involved in something. I intend to go through the "process" sooner or later and that would've been a neat way to shoot various handguns. I could work out in my head or read through all the theoretical discussions on all the different gun forums available about caliber, revolver vs semi but I won't be able to truly figure out what would work for me unless I've tried it. CCP won't figure into the equation here though.

"... women and small italian men..." priceless

mauser

Maverick · « **Reply #66 on:** June 29, 2005, 06:35:05 PM »

Like in any other area of career there are those who do well and others who just get by. Many Officers try to rely on statistics or the faint hope that it will always happen to the "other guy". Those are the ones who don't take the range seriously and don't shoot any more than what is required by the job.

FWIW all the range prep is great and all but only an absolute fool expects the same degree of accuracy from a calm controlled range to appear in a radically different street gunfight situation. It's an entirely different situation when the rounds suddenly start whizzing past and you have to react instantly. Between the adrenaline dump, tunnel vision and the need to move and shoot at the same time things get a bit hectic. Until you have experianced it it's rather hard to have a real understanding of it. It really can't be adequately expressed in words, especially in written form.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #67 on:** June 29, 2005, 08:13:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seagoon
Semi-Auto? Come now Jackal, we all know its called a "Gat" and one does not merely hold it sideways one "busts a cap" whilst aiming at the rear of ones opposition. Expressions of how the target is in fact a female dog who seems to have wanted this to happen are also appropriate.

Booyah Homie J,

SEEGZ

Word.

GREENTENERAL · « **Reply #68 on:** June 29, 2005, 10:30:08 PM »

I carry a glock 20c with the g light on the picatinny and chopped to a 29 for front pocket carry.

In the winter I carry a S&W 500 shorty. It is bigger so it does not go well with summer clothes.

I love the S&W revolver. It is very reliable and makes a real mess.

GREENTENERAL · « **Reply #69 on:** June 29, 2005, 10:36:21 PM »

Oh yeah, I strongly recommend front pocket carry. I have been robbed many times. Reaching anywhere other than a wallet area can get you killed. Most confrontations are toe to toe for reasons of intimidation.

Toad · « **Reply #70 on:** June 29, 2005, 10:58:48 PM »

Most of the KC area cops shoot at our Private Club range.

Why? The Departments all closed/abandoned their ranges at some time in the past. Budget problems led to them all slowly dropping individual ranges and using common police range. Then they closed that one too.

Kinda shows what priority they put on shooting.

We don't mind. We let them us it for basically nothing. We figure it'll help keep us from getting shut down when the first Kalifornicator moves into our area and wants to live out in the country, immediately complaining about the gunfire and danger.

GREENTENERAL · « **Reply #71 on:** June 29, 2005, 11:09:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Most of the KC area cops shoot at our Private Club range.

Why? The Departments all closed/abandoned their ranges at some time in the past. Budget problems led to them all slowly dropping individual ranges and using common police range. Then they closed that one too.

Kinda shows what priority they put on shooting.

We don't mind. We let them us it for basically nothing. We figure it'll help keep us from getting shut down when the first Kalifornicator moves into our area and wants to live out in the country, immediately complaining about the gunfire and danger.

I've lived in southmorland for six years, been in many situations. I can honestly say that it is irrelevant weather the local police have any skill with a firearm or not. Their record for me is 45 minutes to respond (averaging well over an hour) .

Most criminals will die of natural causes before a gunfight will ever ensue.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #72 on:** June 30, 2005, 01:54:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mauser
Wow... that inspires confidence But I guess I'm not really that surprised. Comparing the mentality of PD brass in a state like Florida or Texas to that of California or Hawaii would probably be like night and day I assume.

I definitely would have come for the last public range day / fair at Koko Head if I had heard about it (nothing on TV.. hmmm....) and wasn't already involved in something. I intend to go through the "process" sooner or later and that would've been a neat way to shoot various handguns. I could work out in my head or read through all the theoretical discussions on all the different gun forums available about caliber, revolver vs semi but I won't be able to truly figure out what would work for me unless I've tried it. CCP won't figure into the equation here though.

"... women and small italian men..." priceless

mauser

Dont even mention that about the "no advertising" thing, several of us were a bit ticked at the HRA (Hawaii Rifle Association) for not advertising this year. HRA sponsors the Shooting Sports Fair btw. They couldnt even be bothered to put dates and times on their website. I believe someone said they advertised on the talk radio station (97.5?), but since no one really listens to it none of us really knew for sure lol.

SASH (the club I belong to) does its shooting competitions out at Koko Head every 4th Sunday. Our website is

http://www.sashgunclub.com

The LIFE group (gun safety instruction) also meets out there on the weekends. To get a permit for a handgun in Hawaii you have to have passed the NRA handgun safety course. They have a good program with very competent instructors.

http://lifehawaii.com/

If you are looking to try handguns and find something you like, try Magnum firearms on Queen St. downtown. They do NRA certified handgun training also, and have an indoor range. To get your permit to acquire, as I said above, you have to have passed the handgun safety course. No one on the island does it better than them. You can check them out at

http://www.magnum50.com

I really cant stress enough how thorough their NRA instruction class is. I havent taken it personally, but I've watched parts of them being given, and I have talked to folks that went through it. They are very reasonable on gun rental fees for the range, and have a wide selection of guns. I'd rate them as one of the top 3 gun stores on the island, and the only one of the top stores that has a range as well. You want to stay away from the ranges in Waikiki, they are overpriced and aimed at drawing in tourists with too much money and not enough sense (at least so far as I have seen). Young Guns has a decent selection, but their hours of business are restrictive and they are kinda out of the way. Also, while the guys are knowledgeable enough, some of them seem to have an attitude problem. Maybe its just me. Windward Guns in Hawaii Kai is a great little store, but their selection is very small. Mostly he special orders stuff for people, but that means he cant get great prices like some of the bigger stores. I shop there because its close to the range and because I love the slightly cluttered, organized chaos of his shop. Its like my gun closet back home, only with more ammo.

mauser · « **Reply #73 on:** June 30, 2005, 02:39:33 AM »

Ah.. well that explains the lack of advertisement.

I had done a little research at another forum (The High Road) and a poster there clued me in on how difficult it is to get a handgun here. At least three separate visits to the HPD station I think it was. Much simpler with a rifle (no NRA class and notarized certificate required). I'll probably end up going to the LIFE class when I get to that point since it is really close to home anyway. Wife and I used to live less than a block from Magnum Firearms, but I wasn't quite ready yet. Thanks for the tip about them though - I'll lean towards them when the time comes.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't bother with the Waikiki gun clubs. They seem to cater primarily to Japanese tourists and their $$. Actually we try to avoid Waikiki for the most part anyway

.

At one time I totally ignored the posibility of owning a revolver. Now after doing more thoughtful reading I'm aware both platforms have their advantages and disadvantages. What's more important is getting something that you'll be comfortable training with and shooting. Especially when it'll probably be your only firearm due to budget, space, or whatever reason.

mauser

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #74 on:** June 30, 2005, 03:02:43 AM »

Another thing that must be considered for those of us living in Paradise. Availability of ammo. Staying with .38/.357 for revolvers helps keep the cost down. Its the most common. You can go to Sports Authority and buy .38 special ammo for 3 bucks a box, while my .45LCs are 24 bucks a box. It almost forces you to stay with 9mm if you go semi-auto, because of cost restrictions on anything else. Forget about mail order too, because everything comes by air frieght. Unless you can find someone willing to ship on the proverbial (but perhaps literal in this case) "slow boat to china", you are out of luck. No form of explosive can be shipped via air freight. Luckily, one of the guys in our club does shipping, so he can get us oddball stuff. But it has to be ordered well in advance and done in quantity. For instance, my Winchester .30-30 is a great little gun, but unusable in my cowboy shooting club. However, I found a guy who will do a conversion for me to make it a .38-55. All well and good, but no one on the island sells .38-55, so unless I can get them sent via this guy, I'll have to order just brass and bullets and load my own.

Anyway, just walk in at Magnum and tell them what you want in a gun. They will help you find what is comfortable for you, and will fill your needs. I'm thinking of using the range a few days myself next week, to work on getting more accurate with my .45. Since I work downtown, its a short drive down Queen St.

Oh, and just so you know. This weekend (the 3rd) is the Civil War shoot out at KokoHead. Alot of guys from the Historic Arms Society will have their CW stuff out. Alot of them arent replicas either, these are real period pieces being loaded and fired. One of our group that will be there has 2 CW Springfiled rifles that fire the minie-ball setup. I think those things are like .69 caliber? Huge. He also has a trapdoor Springfield shooting .45-70s.