Spoke to Pyro re Spits

[Kev367th]

Krutsy - Well hopefully we'll get another source of data for it.
I have sent emails all over the place asking for perfromance data, hopefully I'll get something.
5700fpm seems a little excessive/unbelievable, I didn't want the 25lbs for the climb, but for the extra 24mph.

Found out already that clipped wings affect climb up to 200fpm, so if we can find a few other sources for XVI data, even if for a normal wing we can work out climb for a clipped.


For those who think that the XVI is not needed at all-
1) Was used by the 2TAF - good for D-Day, late was scenarios.
2) Was the RAF LAST mainstay frontline Spit.

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Krusty
, where any greenhorn pilot can get 15 kills a sortie in after 1 hours learning curve, that when you meet it in a fight it will be impossible to defeat unless you are in the same plane?

.

 

Sounds like the plane for me! Best I have ever done is 3. But then I don't generally vultch.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Krusty
, that when you meet it in a fight it will be impossible to defeat unless you are in the same plane?

By that reasoning 262's should ONLY be shot down by 262's.

The chaotic nature of the MA ensures this is not true.

[Krusty]

I think a better, more capable example would have been the La7. The 262 is pretty impotent, really.

But imagine if the La7 flew as well as it did, but had the guns and turning capabilities of the spitV we currently have? It would be the predominant threat, no matter how green/new the pilot was.

Okay, I concede. I was being too general and exagerating slightly. I withdraw the comment about only being able to kill it in the exact same ride.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Krutsy - Well hopefully we'll get another source of data for it.
I have sent emails all over the place asking for perfromance data, hopefully I'll get something.
5700fpm seems a little excessive/unbelievable, I didn't want the 25lbs for the climb, but for the extra 24mph.

Found out already that clipped wings affect climb up to 200fpm, so if we can find a few other sources for XVI data, even if for a normal wing we can work out climb for a clipped.


For those who think that the XVI is not needed at all-
1) Was used by the 2TAF - good for D-Day, late was scenarios.
2) Was the RAF LAST mainstay frontline Spit.

I have e-mails out to some of my Spit contacts as well.  Hopefully we'll get an accurate number.

Dan/CorkyJr

[Kev367th]

La7 is the highest dieing plane in the MA by last tours reports.

You dont need an La7 to beat an La7.

See your point, but your missing one -
It doesn't have the speed even at 25lbs to escape 11 other planes, without WEP its even worse.
Yes I mention speed because we don't know excatly how it will turn, clipped wings, lot more torque etc.
We can assume it will worse that current IX, average is +55ft wider turn clipped, but we dont know what effect torque will have.

Add to that you can guarentee its not being chased by one plane, but by many.
I think too many people are thinking 1v1, MA 1v1, yup that'll be the day.

You know what the real problem will be whatever he does with it?
The majority of spit drivers will jump straight to it ignoring the V,IX,VIII.
Whatever he does your going to see a lot if XVI's, if he thinks by limiting it to 18lbs it will put people off, he's wrong.

If nothing else, it's great to see the LWeebles squirming. ( )*( ) do I see some twitch there lol jk.

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Krusty


Bronk, what does it matter if I express the opinion that "I sure hope it's perked!"

While I concur with Kev that you're not an average Luftwaffle; and that almost all your posts are reasoned; nontheless it matters beause you're attempting to influence choices in an arena you don't use; don't intend to use, don't contribute to nor intend to contribute to.

As a H2H player; you control your own arenas completly; or choose those that suit you.

As a H2H player; for you, every plane is another plane; and nothing more than that. Any discussions of HTC's perking system; which applies to the MA (and to a lesser extent; the CT) is completly beyond your remit and you're out of place trying to place an agenda in the discussion.


It's _exactly_ the same as MA players trying to influence what goes on in H2H: Out of place and none of their buisness.

Nonetheless; there's an easy way to join in.

Pay. Just like every one else.

[Drano]

Originally posted by Seeker

Nonetheless; there's an easy way to join in.

Pay. Just like every one else.

A Kill Has Been Recorded?

       

Drano

[Krusty]

I have to say seeker, that you choose a very narrow minded view of me, and every other person that has flown HTH.

Originally posted by Seeker
you're attempting to influence choices in an arena you don't use; don't intend to use, don't contribute to nor intend to contribute to.

I do not use it. I do intend to use it. I do contribute, and have several skins accepted and in the MA now. You make false assumptions based on... what? The fact that I fly in HTH rooms? So do many subscription players.

As a H2H player; you control your own arenas completly; or choose those that suit you.

As a H2H player; for you, every plane is another plane; and nothing more than that. Any discussions of HTC's perking system; which applies to the MA (and to a lesser extent; the CT) is completly beyond your remit and you're out of place trying to place an agenda in the discussion.
[/B]

Gameplay balance is the entire point of perks. Gameplay pre balance (keeping rare planes from being seen in massive numbers) or post balance (seeing that there are far too many chogs running around, and adding a perk price) is all that the perks do. Nothing else. By all descriptions the Spit16 with +25 boost would be unbalancing. Perking it would prevent this.

I am not naive. I have been flying AH on and off since it came out. Hell Just after beta I asked on the forums if HT was going to release a software mode for it, and he (or somebody in HTC) said it was geared for the 3D crowd. After that I got a computer with 3D and most of the time since then AH has been on my hard drive.

Do not think me out of my realm. Do not think of me anything other than an Ace High community member. As that is what I am. And the community gets involved and is involved in important issues (which this has been -- an important issue).

[Kev367th]

Whilst in prinicple I agree with you -

If you perked a 25lbs boost Spit XVI, then there are a number of other planes that SHOULD be perked at the same time.

You compared a G10 to a XVI at 15k?
Yet again you compare aircraft that fight in two different realms, what happens if you go up 5k, the G10 gains the edge and keeps on doing the higher you go.

Try comparing overall performance to an aircraft designed to fight low level. Eg La7.

Would guess
Speed La7 - easily
Climb - XVI (unless at real high speed where Spits get sluggish pulling up)
Guns - XVI
Turn - Low speed XVI, med speed ?, high speeds ?
Would actaully say chasing a La7 on the deck approaching his top speed, he 'may' have the advantage in turn, and should pull up better.
Acceleration - comments.

Looks like a la7 Vs Spit XVI would be interesting, at least until the Spit loses 'e'.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Guppy35
I have e-mails out to some of my Spit contacts as well.  Hopefully we'll get an accurate number.

Dan/CorkyJr

Send our thanks to any that reply on the matter

[Kev367th]

Yeah Dan.
Not got anything back yet

Would assume -

Compared to the figures we have

Clipped wing, extra fuel, extra weight should all contribute to a reduction of the 5700fpm?

Do we have base figures for a XVI rather than using a IX, given the XVI was heavier?
Be nice to see base figures, then at 18, then at 25.

Just noticed this
quote: Pyro
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There has been some advocacy for a +25lb boost clipped wing Mk XVI. I really don't see what hole that fills. It would pretty much fall into the same category as the XIV. I have no qualms with that plane, but I think going with a 2000+hp version of it would be a waste as it would end up perked and CM's wouldn't use it much either.
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Why wouldn't it be used by CMs? Perfect for D-Day and after scenarios. In all honesty could say the same about 50% of the planeset.
XIV and XVI are totally different, XVI low level, XIV high level.
Fills the 1944 onwards hole the 'free' Spits have had since I starting playing (if unperked).

Anyway lets see what figures we can come up first, I think the 5700fpm is gonna drop quite a lot once we get accurate figures.

Teking bets (100fpm only please)-
I'll have 4000-4100

[Nashwan]

Anyway lets see what figures we can come up first, I think the 5700fpm is gonna drop quite a lot once we get accurate figures.

Teking bets (100fpm only please)-
I'll have 4000-4100

4000 - 4100 ft/min?

The Australians tested a Spitfire LF VIII, slightly heavier than the IX, minor airframe differences, should be similar speed, slightly worse climbrate.

They got a climb rate of 4600 ft/min up to about 6,000 ft at 18 lbs boost. 25 lbs boost increased the power about 25%.

4,600 ft/min increased by 25% would be 5,750 ft/min, critical altitude would drop.

However, you might not gain 25% climb rate with a 25% increase in power because the prop probably wouldn't absorb all that extra power. Individual aircraft vary as well, of course.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Nashwan
4000 - 4100 ft/min?

The Australians tested a Spitfire LF VIII, slightly heavier than the IX, minor airframe differences, should be similar speed, slightly worse climbrate.

They got a climb rate of 4600 ft/min up to about 6,000 ft at 18 lbs boost. 25 lbs boost increased the power about 25%.

4,600 ft/min increased by 25% would be 5,750 ft/min, critical altitude would drop.

However, you might not gain 25% climb rate with a 25% increase in power because the prop probably wouldn't absorb all that extra power. Individual aircraft vary as well, of course.

I keep going back to the Spit VIII pilot's notes on climb.  And I keep wanting to throw out what someone did testing as opposed to what the squadron pilots were operating at.

Image from the pilots notes.  Yes I know it's 100 octane and +18 but note how it's limited to +12 for the Merlin 66 for climb and max take off.

+18 is only used for max combat boost and then for only 5 minutes.

We need something to show that +25 was used in all aspects of operating the Spit LFIX or LFXVI.

My primary Spitfire source replied but is out of town for a week away from his resources, but promises to get on it as soon as he returns.  Not that we're going to have that much patience

Dan/CorkyJr

[Nashwan]

Oh, certainly much less at climbing power, about 3650 ft/min for the Australian test of the Spitfire VIII, but people aren't really interestd in climbing power, are they? How fast you can climb to whatever altitude you want to fly is important for gameplay, but it seems to me all people are really interested in is the advantage they can get in combat, how fast they can climb/accelerate away from their opponent.

I certainly think that's the important consideration for Pyro, how difficult it will be for people to combat the Spit, not how long it took a Spit driver to get to 20k before he begins his run in to target.