Hello Mosgood,
Originally posted by mosgood
So, really it's not "by the Bible or the Bayonet" It's "by paying for it later by going to hell for your sins or the Bayonet" both is fear induced. So... people only behave because they fear consquences ?
I really was being honest when I said to Sandman that I don't have time at the moment to engage in any real debate on this or any other subject, and for that I sincerely apologize. We are hoping to (finally) be able to go on our first real vacation in over a year starting on the 12th and I'm trying to get everything in reasonable order before I go. By an odd coincidence, part of the reason I don't have time to discuss the reasons behind the lawless behavior is because I'm trying to figure out how we as a congregation can most effectively assist those who are suffering from it.
But your question deserves at least a quick reply. Christians do not obey God's commands out of a fear of punishment as say a slave would obey the commands of his master, rather the compelling force for the Christian is not fear, but love. If a Christian sincerely obeys the commands of Christ he does so out of love for the giver of those commands. As Christ Himself put it
" If you love Me, keep My commandments." (John 14:15)
This love is intimately related to what the Bible tells us happens at conversion, the believer is given a new heart, one that despises the former sinful things one previous loved, and loves the things one previously hated. As Ezekiel 36 sums it up:
"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."In the NT, this process of radical change is called in Greek
pallingenesis "rebirth" or "new creation"
So then Christians obey not out of slavish fear, but because the are a new creation and they love the Father as His adopted children. As Paul says
"For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father.""This doesn't mean that the Christian will be perfect in his obedience, any more than even a loving child will be perfect in his obedience to his earthly parents. But it does mean that he will sincerely regret disobeying and more importantly that his sins have been perfectly forgiven through the finished work of Christ, and that consequently he has no reason to fear final damnation.
Thus to put it in practical terms, I don't abstain from theft, looting, adultery, etc. because I fear punishment from man or God, or because I am not subject to temptation (heaven knows thats not the case) I do it both because its not a part of who I am and because I love my redeemer and want to please him more than I want to satisfy the desires of the flesh. That same grrateful love is what should motivate Christians to serve others, and not to render evil for evil and so on.
So remove the external threat of force, the "strong arm of man", and unless he was a hypocrite all along, the Christian should still obey the commandments, not because he fears the wrath of their giver, but because he loves them and their author.
- SEAGOON
