Author Topic: Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness  (Read 2067 times)

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2005, 09:50:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:

Why do a majority of black people see the response of the government (federal, state and local) as obviously racist, while a majority of white people don't?

I just wonder what would happen if we all just attempted to understand the mindset that would lead a person to the conclusion that they are being treated differently based on their skin color. They don't dream this stuff up out of the clear blue sky. We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food. Is it so hard to imagine a group of white cops seeing a large group of black people as looters, while the black people see the white cops as racists. Maybe they're both wrong, but the attempt to understand is the first step to solving the problem.


because for decades black people have been taught by the left that their poverty, problems, highschool drop out rates, single parent rates, ect are not their fault but the fault of others and racism by the white man.

A group that never has to shell out any personal responsibility will never succeed in life.  When something doesn't go their way they can and do pull the race card.

Blacks have cried wolf when it comes to racism for too long now and whites aren't going to put up with it.

I don't think all blacks are this way but the majority of black leadership promotes this very Idea.  Long gone are the days of "get to the back of the bus boy" but yet very simple things get called racism and it really downgrades the word all together.  

If black leaders would spend as much time telling blacks to 1. Graduate High school 2.  Don't have kids before you are married 3.  Don't get married untill you are out of poverty, as they did pointing out all the "sub-concious" racism well they'd be better off today ten fold.  Yes, shun Bill Cosby for speaking the truth and keep feeding those lies to the people.

Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food


no we didn't:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 09:54:34 AM by Gunslinger »

Offline mosgood

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1548
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2005, 10:05:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target


I just wonder what would happen if we all just attempted to understand the mindset that would lead a person to the conclusion that they are being treated differently based on their skin color. They don't dream this stuff up out of the clear blue sky. We all saw the pictures after the flood of white people "finding food" and black people "looting" the same food. Is it so hard to imagine a group of white cops seeing a large group of black people as looters, while the black people see the white cops as racists. Maybe they're both wrong, but the attempt to understand is the first step to solving the problem.


Why would I try to have a mindset of someone else that is trying to blame me of something?  I know what the heck I'm thinking.

Just look at the situation that happened there.....

NO gets flattened and who gets blamed?  It wasn't the BLACK Mayor of the town that was totally unprepared for it... it was the WHITE president being blamed by the BLACK mayor.  Why don't you try to figure out why it always comes down to Blacks blaming Whites instead... even in a situation where a BLACK was incharge.....


btw... I don't here the Mayor taking any responsiblity at all..... while the Pres just did for his share.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 10:07:23 AM by mosgood »

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2005, 10:35:58 AM »
Quote
Maybe it is time to ask ourselves this question:

Why do a majority of black people see the response of the government (federal, state and local) as obviously racist, while a majority of white people don't? - MT


Maybe its time to ask ourselves this question, MT:

Why do a majority of black people believe OJ Simpson is innocent while most white people believe he is guilty?

The truth, in both cases, exists independantly from any group's particular bias.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 11:34:36 AM by Gunthr »
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Jackal1

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9092
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2005, 10:35:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger

no we didn't:


http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp




Guns, I don`t put much faith in snopes. Sometimes they put a little spin on things and discover the "truth" they want to discover.
  Either way you might want to have another look at the link you posted. :)
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline ASTAC

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1654
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2005, 10:43:09 AM »
You know...I just don't care...maybe I have a hard heart, but the problems down there are not my problems, I don't know why you guys so violently defend your sides of an issue that probrably didn't effect you.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2005, 10:47:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger


no we didn't:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp


The reporter put looted under the black kid even though he admits the kid had taken the stuff out of a GROCERY STORE. He didnt take it from Circuit City the kid was taking food. That is hardly looting. There was a double standard down there and it was obvious as hell on tv and in newspapers.

Offline Jackal1

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9092
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2005, 11:30:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
You know...I just don't care...maybe I have a hard heart, but the problems down there are not my problems, I don't know why you guys so violently defend your sides of an issue that probrably didn't effect you.


  You planning on or have you allready moved to another country?
  What went on in NO during this period and continues going on has, does and will effect everyone in this country. It will for many years to come.
  I know, here in Texas, it is allready having a great impact on our state.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2005, 02:07:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
The reporter put looted under the black kid even though he admits the kid had taken the stuff out of a GROCERY STORE. He didnt take it from Circuit City the kid was taking food. That is hardly looting. There was a double standard down there and it was obvious as hell on tv and in newspapers.


Try again raiderboy:

Quote
Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."

Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting.
The photographer who took the Getty/AFP picture, Chris Graythen, also posted the reasons behind his caption:
I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water — we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow.

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2005, 02:09:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
Guns, I don`t put much faith in snopes. Sometimes they put a little spin on things and discover the "truth" they want to discover.
  Either way you might want to have another look at the link you posted. :)


See post above

EDIT:  and that's not snope's spin that's a direct quote from something else.

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2005, 02:30:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Try again raiderboy:


Do you not even read what you posted???

says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store.


Notice the words "GROCERY STORE"

I don't consider taking stuff from a grocery store looting under these circumstances. Like I said if it was circuit city ok then it's looting but a Winn-Dixie pffft. Sometimes the level of compassion shown by some of you is astounding.

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2005, 06:20:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Do you not even read what you posted???

says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store.


Notice the words "GROCERY STORE"

I don't consider taking stuff from a grocery store looting under these circumstances. Like I said if it was circuit city ok then it's looting but a Winn-Dixie pffft. Sometimes the level of compassion shown by some of you is astounding.

DID YOU NOT EVEN READ WHAT I POSTED

They are talking about BOTH photos taken by two DIFERENT photographers from TWO DIFFERENT agencies.

Quote

Photo ONE http://www.bairey.com/journal/katrina1.jpg
Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."
 


Hence the picture of the black person.  They SAW him take the stuff.  Food or not they called it looting wich by definition it is.

Quote


photo TWO http://www.bairey.com/journal/katrina3.jpg
Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting


The conclusion I draw from this is not one of racism but of perspective.  If he saw the white people looting (IE actually taking the stuff) he would have called them looters as well.

Again I don't fault anyone for looting food and water but by definition it's still looting.  Again keep crying wolf about racism and see what the dangerous reprocutions are.

Try again Raiderboy!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 06:23:48 PM by Gunslinger »

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2005, 06:30:02 PM »
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=loot

Main Entry: 1loot
Pronunciation: 'lüt
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi lut; akin to Sanskrit luntati he plunders
1 : goods usually of considerable value taken in war : SPOILS
2 : something held to resemble goods of value seized in war: as a : something appropriated illegally often by force or violence b : illicit gains by public officials c : MONEY
3 : the action of looting
synonym see SPOIL
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2005, 06:39:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
DID YOU NOT EVEN READ WHAT I POSTED

They are talking about BOTH photos taken by two DIFERENT photographers from TWO DIFFERENT agencies.



Hence the picture of the black person.  They SAW him take the stuff.  Food or not they called it looting wich by definition it is.



The conclusion I draw from this is not one of racism but of perspective.  If he saw the white people looting (IE actually taking the stuff) he would have called them looters as well.

Again I don't fault anyone for looting food and water but by definition it's still looting.  Again keep crying wolf about racism and see what the dangerous reprocutions are.

Try again Raiderboy!


It was a black kid leaving a grocery store after a huge disaster. Not some gang-banger leaving footlocker with 50 pairs of shoes. I guess you can't understand the difference.

I see someone doing what they have to do to survive, you see a petty criminal.

They also saw the white couple standing outside the store catching stuff as it floated out the door. You gonna tell me that is not stealing as per your definition?

I don't have to try again, You have shown you have no compassion for those trapped in NO.

Glad you are not down here helping GunSmoker you'd probably shoot someone for making off with a loaf of bread and then say it was a looter. Really nice guy.

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2005, 06:40:32 PM »
Quote
loot    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (lt)
n.
Valuables pillaged in time of war; spoils.
Stolen goods.
Informal. Goods illicitly obtained, as by bribery.
Informal. Things of value, such as gifts, received on one occasion.
Slang. Money.

v. loot·ed, loot·ing, loots
v. tr.
To pillage; spoil.
To take as spoils; steal.

looting

n : plundering during riots or in wartime [syn: robbery]


Eitehr way he's looting.  I suppose you guys with the crystal balls out there know what's in the black bag?

Either way this is pointless.  I posted this to counter MT's and other liberal assertions that race had somthing to do with the caption......the photographers say otherwise....

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Gretna: Tragedy meets callousness
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2005, 06:41:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=loot

Main Entry: 1loot
Pronunciation: 'lüt
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi lut; akin to Sanskrit luntati he plunders
1 : goods usually of considerable value taken in war : SPOILS
2 : something held to resemble goods of value seized in war: as a : something appropriated illegally often by force or violence b : illicit gains by public officials c : MONEY
3 : the action of looting
synonym see SPOIL


well he obviously has no clue on anything

The Longstanding Criminal Law Defense Of Necessity

The law allows people to use the defense of necessity to commit acts that would be criminal if there was no necessity.

Yes, some victims of Hurricane Katrina stole. It was not their property and it was a crime: theft. But necessity is a defense.

Of course, there are certain restrictions. You cannot kill another person and invoke the defense of necessity - no matter what the circumstances might be. But you may commit burglary or theft to protect yourself from death or serious bodily harm.

There are limitations on the defense, however: There has to be an immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm. That threat has to be caused by nature, not man-made (and especially, not created by the individual invoking the defense). There can be no reasonable alternative means to prevent the impending threat, other than the theft.

And finally, the individual is only permitted to do what is needed to ward off the impending threat; the necessity of stealing bread or baby food is not a license to steal books and magazines, too.