Author Topic: What happened to LW? (Read 21229 times)

Kev367th · « **Reply #150 on:** November 25, 2005, 06:13:49 PM »

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Originally posted by Morpheus
wow, so when you piss and moan about your spitfires not being right or what other EroTfighter you can come up with, its because you have countless hours of stick time in them? Please.

Pay attention Here please.

We're talking about for one, obvious mistakes. Such as combat flaps or lack there of. Or the lack of operational flaperons. Not to mention the obvious change in flight characteristics with each update making it feel even worse.

When the last update first came out I felt it right away. I didnt say anything because I knew I'd have countless numbers of people like you, Kevin, with smart ass, whiner remarks. But then I saw this thread, and talked to Nath even before he posted this thread about how the new LW's felt, and I knew it wasnt just me then.

If there was a problem or something was missing on a P51D that WAS there on all P51D's in real life, and its not in the game, it would be fixed ASAP.

HT's own words = "NOTHING HAS BEEN CHANGED IN THE FM's"

Only things I complain about in the Spits is the boost etc, I'm no expert to say, "oh the climb is wrong, the ballistics are wrong, it doesn't turn right etc".
As I said HT has stated the FM's are unchanged.

Morpheus · « **Reply #151 on:** November 25, 2005, 07:08:06 PM »

Flying them I do not beleive that nothing has changed. Sorry. Something has changed.

Shane · « **Reply #152 on:** November 25, 2005, 07:11:25 PM »

ok crumpp, *you* have a good reason... now for all you other luftweenies with the same fixation on obtaining this info... should i be amused or concerned?

Shane · « **Reply #153 on:** November 25, 2005, 07:13:16 PM »

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Originally posted by Morpheus
Flying them I do not beleive that nothing has changed. Sorry. Something has changed.

i agree... the k4 feels noting like the old g10 it supposed morphed (heh) from. and i think i've put my fair share of time in the 109 series in AH.

since the g14 is totally new, i can only go by what is presented on it.

storch · « **Reply #154 on:** November 25, 2005, 08:44:57 PM »

don't take the following observation as a dig at HTC because it isn't. i just flew the spitVIII for the first time in the CT. I understand the rationale behind it. a player made a comment and it was an epiphany. give people one of the most popular warplanes in all of history, model it to a relatively easy mode with phenomenal views and armed with lazer cannons. the bottom feeders will eventually find it and think they are good. you get my $14.95 for another month. I say leave the formula because it works, without it the game would fail and we would be out of some enjoyable and cheap entertainment.

Kev367th · « **Reply #155 on:** November 25, 2005, 09:47:30 PM »

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Originally posted by Morpheus
Flying them I do not beleive that nothing has changed. Sorry. Something has changed.

I can only go on what HT has stated.

Crumpp · « **Reply #156 on:** November 25, 2005, 09:49:57 PM »

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I can only go on what HT has stated.

Noted...

Thanks for the input.

Krusty · « **Reply #157 on:** November 25, 2005, 10:35:38 PM »

And as I have stated, HT said the model hasn't changed. Well the code that processes the FM sure has changed! Because there are several major upgrade changes that have affected the flight models of all 190s and 109s over a long period of time, and yet the FM has never changed.

It's undeniable changes have been made. If they're not in the FM (which HTC has stated) then I don't give a rat's where they ARE found, they exist.

That's my point.

HTC's crew does fly the game, sure. They spend far far more time, however, working and coding and all the support stuff that goes on behind the scenes. There's a very real chance they didn't "feel" or recognize the changes they made.

Hell, we, the players, are the testing audience 90% of the time. WE find the bugs and problems. Well we've found them, we've noted them, but since we can't go sifting through 100,000 lines of coad we really can't help them "fix" 'em, so all we get is the standard "No FM changes were made" -- which is true but beside the point.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #158 on:** November 25, 2005, 11:15:44 PM »

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Originally posted by storch
don't take the following observation as a dig at HTC because it isn't. i just flew the spitVIII for the first time in the CT. I understand the rationale behind it. a player made a comment and it was an epiphany. give people one of the most popular warplanes in all of history, model it to a relatively easy mode with phenomenal views and armed with lazer cannons. the bottom feeders will eventually find it and think they are good. you get my $14.95 for another month. I say leave the formula because it works, without it the game would fail and we would be out of some enjoyable and cheap entertainment.

So there I was at the Legends airshow in England, talking to a Spit pilot. His comment was the Spitfire was almost too easy to fly. He laughed and said it might have made more sense to start new pilots on the Spitfire and then go on to the Tiger Moth and Harvards.

He was part of the crew that flew the Spitfire and Hurricane to Malta. He commented that he was flying the Hurricane as it presented more of a challenge to fly.

So is it just possible that the Spit is modeled correctly?

Is it just possible it was a pilot friendly aircraft that did one heckuva good job as a fighter during WW2?

I'm going to quit apologizing for flying Spits. I bow to the greatness of all the Luftwobbles. I like the history of the Spit, I can claim former Spit pilots as friends, and I just like it. You want to complain about it, go for it. Storch, you've been whining about Spits as long as I've been around. Might just want to put your energies elsewhere though

Grits · « **Reply #159 on:** November 25, 2005, 11:17:08 PM »

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Originally posted by Krusty
It's undeniable changes have been made. If they're not in the FM (which HTC has stated) then I don't give a rat's where they ARE found, they exist.

That's my point.

Despite the fact that I am in the minority, I will deny it Krusty. I not only refute the idea that the measureable numbers have changed, I refute the idea that there are any intangable differences to be felt, I think its your imagination. I dont feel any change, you and many, many others do. I think you (not you literally, the "we" you) feel the changes because you want to feel them. Maybe I dont feel them because I am in denial, I dont know.

I just tested the K-4 and the old G-10 back to back. I had a copy of 2.04 for the G-10 and used the current K-4. Both planes at 100% fuel, 30mm spinner, and no gondies on the G-10 the deck speed, climb rate, acceleration from 150-300, and roll rate at both 200 and 300 are IDENTICAL. No differences. They are the same plane.

Until something shows up in a patch ReadMe or I find something measurably different I am going to call Placebo on the FM changes.

Crumpp · « **Reply #160 on:** November 25, 2005, 11:32:16 PM »

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It's undeniable changes have been made.

I agree. The FW190 handles differently compared to when it first came out in AH2.

All the best,

Crumpp

Zwerg · « **Reply #161 on:** November 26, 2005, 12:09:48 AM »

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Originally posted by Crumpp
I agree. The FW190 handles differently compared to when it first came out in AH2.

That's interesting, Crumpp. I see it the same way.
When AH2 started, the 190s had much better E-retention. You could make a high speed attack on a Spit (for example), pull hard and reverse immediately without danger to be catched by the Spit. Do do this 2 or 3 times in a row, until the speed had dropped. Then disengage and leave an even slower Spit behind.
Soon after, in an early Patch, the 190s were reduced to the actual level.

PS: It was not easier zu kill Spits, but much easier not to be killed.

Bruno · « **Reply #162 on:** November 26, 2005, 12:16:44 AM »

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I just tested the K-4 and the old G-10 back to back. I had a copy of 2.04 for the G-10 and used the current K-4. Both planes at 100% fuel, 30mm spinner, and no gondies on the G-10 the deck speed, climb rate, acceleration from 150-300, and roll rate at both 200 and 300 are IDENTICAL. No differences. They are the same plane.

Grits,

They don't want to hear that after all undeniable changes have been made and HTC is keeping those changes secret just because he hates LW planes. Just ask any one of the experts in this thread.

Anyway, it has been a while since the last Ramm/Mando type 'woe is the LW' melt down. Just sit back and enjoy it.

Morpheus · « **Reply #163 on:** November 26, 2005, 01:26:13 AM »

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Originally posted by Bruno
Grits,

They don't want to hear that after all undeniable changes have been made and HTC is keeping those changes secret just because he hates LW planes. Just ask any one of the experts in this thread.

Anyway, it has been a while since the last Ramm/Mando type 'woe is the LW' melt down. Just sit back and enjoy it.

storch · « **Reply #164 on:** November 26, 2005, 03:20:00 AM »

as an example the 190A8 carries the additional weight of the auxiliary tank even after the cartoon fuel is all used up. it's an acknowledged error that will not be corrected until "in two weeks". my solution to this particular problem is when flying the A8 I drain the aft fuel first then the forward fuel leaving the unemptiable tank for last. now please address the issue of a 190A8 being unable to compete against bombers above 23k. it doesn't climb well enough to catch them, any manouever causes an immediate stall with a loss of altitude. this from the LW's premier bomber interceptor. the fact is that they were modelled incorrectly from the start. the fact is since Nath's original premis for this thread is valid, namely that the LW cartoonoplanes simply do not perform with anywhere near the ease of other types in the game and are very likely to be incorrect across the board. it is across the board. it appears to me to be clearly intentional or corrections would have been made. when I started "luftwhining" pyro and ht both said to "provide documentation". well my squaddie crumpp has provided reams of documentation gleaned from irrefutable sources such as the nasm and wright patterson. the next response was well the data was being "cherry picked" what ever that means because crumpp has sent all the data he collected and not specific data attempting to bolster his position. in conclusion I come away with the perception that some folks just can't say "I made a mistake", and make corrections. I say so be it. let the bottom feeders enjoy the woobieness of their training wheel rides. it's all the more gratifying to cartoon shoot them down. this is still the best game of this genre, until something better comes along I'll continue to play it.