How I Lost the War in Iraq

[mechanic]

there are no winners in war, merely the people who are left alive.

[Fishu]

Stop playing the ill realistic CS and go fight the terrorist in Iraq! much more fun!
No bunny hopping, no cheaters, you get paid for participating this game, no whining of mismodelling - it's as realistic as it gets!
.. and much much more!

[NUKE]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
The majority of the US peopel feel the war in Iraq is not going well, therefore, the war is not going well.  Raise your hand if your smarter than the majority of the US people.

I am smarter than the majority of American people. I am in the top 2% statistically.

I'd be willing to bet that every single person who posts here and supports the war is smarter than the majority of Americans. The majority of Americans are sheep but think they're not.

[mechanic]

I'd rather have someone pretend to shoot me for years and get a little buzz than only once for the ultimate buzz. but hell, wouldnt say no if i was forced to join up, and would make a good deal of whatever they made me do 'in the name of freedom'.

[mechanic]

Originally posted by NUKE
I am smarter than the majority of American people. I am in the top 2% statistically.

I'd be willing to bet that every single person who posts here and supports the war is smarter than the majority of Americans. The majority of Americans are sheep but think they're not.

i dont have a national average IQ for the US, what would you say it is?


i'm geussing if you're in the top 2% that would put you in triple digits though(i hope, god bless america).

spose this aint none of my business either though.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by SkyRock
cut and run????????  We got wipped by the war of attrition bro!  

In Nam
We got whipped politically. Not militarily
The media, and people like Fonda, and the politicians running the war from Washington. did more to defeat us then the NVs ever did in the feild

[Donzo]

Originally posted by VOR
Anything for a friend.

Ah yes, comical banter (translate: spin, diversion, etc, etc)
Now answer the question:
"This thread is priceless. Left and/or right wing zealots can't seem to see the forest for the trees.

Some things never change. "

What is the forest, friend?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Torque


my brother served in the first gulf war. this time on the wife's side two went over, one kid went to afghanistan and the other pulled special body guard duty in iraq. it's becoming an annual event ever decade shackling the reaganstein.

cracks me up hearing most of you bleacher blowhards tout "we" this and "we" that...

it's great that you watch the news and all...

And the selfrightous crack me up.

This isnt some sort of exclusive club that only you or family members serving have a say or whose opinions are only valid.
This isnt just your family or families of those serving at war. This is the country itself involved and "we" are all a part of it for better or worse.


While "we" may not personally be in the military or have family members over there fighting,"we" have friends or know people over there.

And "we" worry about them also,"We" also feel sorrow when "we" hear of a soldiers death. "We also feel the outrage when a suicide bomber kills himself taking some of "our" soldiers with him. Or when someone is captured and beheaded on Al Jazera

While not serving in the military ourselves "we" care enough to donate  packages and items to send over to OUR servicemen or women to keep send them a bit of home. Because "we" know that just as important as guns,bullets and flackjackets are it is as important for our troops to know "we" stand behind them reguardless of our views on the war.

On 911 did anyone  not think "we" were attacked? How many felt the highjackers just crashed planes into a couple of buildings killing some people?
No,we all considered it an attack on us. Even if "we" didnt know anyone in those buildings or on those planes. "We" all felt "we" were attacked.

Be it for, or against the war "we" speak out on it on behalf of the (our) soldiers. We do this because it is our duty, our right as countrymen to do so.
 "We" see these soldiers as extentions of our own families because they very well could be our fathers, our mothers,our sons, our daughters,our friends, family or fellow townspeople.

We say "we" because as a country, be it for or against it "We" are in this together.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
In Nam
We got whipped politically. Not militarily
The media, and people like Fonda, and the polititions running the war from Washington. did more to defeat us then the NVs ever did in the feild

       We got wipped because of the support the north was getting from CHina, Russia, and others in the region.  Tet,  '68  was the beginning of the end in vietnem.  Drediock, I am not disrespecting the troops bro, I lost my favorite Uncle in vietnam.  He was a gallant fearless soldier and then turned medic.  He gave his life for a fallen soldier.  It's not about who would have fought and won, it's about the place and time one chooses to battle!  I support 100% our war in Afghanistan, because I believe it was the right choice and the right time.  IRAQ is not, was not, and ultimately will be bad for America as a country!  I support our troops in IRAQ right now, I just don't believe it was a smart move in the bigger picture!  
     Frankly, I am surprised to see so many who still say that vietnam was winnable.  Blame Fonda, the media, hippies, whoever!  Vietnam turned into a war of attrition and those type wars truly are never winnable.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Maybe a typo maybe not but why would Sadam let the US disband his army BEFORE the invasion?

Well, he wouldn't.  Sorry for not explaining myself well.


"recuritment for Police and Army is higher than Pre War Iraq."


You have a factory employing 100 employees.  There is a change of ownership, and all 100 are laid off.  The new owners change their mind and try to hire them back.

The owners then issue a press release that says that hiring at the factory is at a higher level than before the change of ownership.  Whoop-dee-do right?  It obfuscates the fact that the owners apparently made a mistake by laying them off in the first place.


Kind of ties into the, "What the heck was the occupation strategy anyway?", arguement we've been having.

[lazs2]

we won the war in vietnam... 95% of all roads were safe... over 95% of villages were in control of the local militia... there had not been a major offensive by the north for years and they were wupped... we threw away the victory by not supporting the south who were beating the north in every engagement and chasing em back into laos..

All we had to do was keep supplying them with arms and money for a little longer... we were all but pulled out anyway..

It is shameful how our politicians abondened them... at one point the south was down to 1 bullet per man per day.   Even at that they threw back the northern troops several times before being over ran.

Our troops and Abrams have nothing to be ashamed of.   Our politicians should live in infamy.

A very good book on the subject is "A Better War" by Sorley.... it explains how Abrams turned the war around and won it.

lazs

[Torque]

it was a rather easy question, a simple 'yes' or 'no' would suffice. no need for a rummy reach around on the issue.

two gulf wars and maneuvers in afghanistan, and still nada between the lot of you. so i'm off the mark in saying that often the most verbose here have a tenuous connection at best.

vietnam, a sorrid colonial sister tea party. read the letters minh set to truman in '45.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Torque
for most here the war is in the abstract. how many of these zealots do you think actually have had or have family over there, in either of the gulf wars, i'm guessing none...

Ok Torque I'll bite.  While the only family member I've had over there being my uncle.....I have many other "brothers" over there that I pray for their safety every night.  I've volunteered to go along time ago but have yet to hop on to a rotation

IMHO Having imediate family serving abroad is tough but I allways remember we all volunteered knowing we could be put in harms way.  Just because somone has family in the military or has had the tragedy of losing somone does not make their voice any more Right or wrong than the next person.  Where's there's somone saying "I hate the war because my father's their the troops need to come home" there's somone else saying "I'm proud of my husband and he's proud of what he is doing, I can't wait for him to come home"

Further the war effects EVERYONE not just those serving.  Keep in mind in your reply that in January I hit 10 Years Time in Service Active Duty.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Torque
it was a rather easy question, a simple 'yes' or 'no' would suffice. no need for a rummy reach around on the issue.

two gulf wars and maneuvers in afghanistan, and still nada between the lot of you. so i'm off the mark in saying that often the most verbose here have a tenuous connection at best.

vietnam, a sorrid colonial sister tea party. read the letters minh set to truman in '45.

No family members here but several friends and other people I know between the 2 Gulf wars.

so what?
While I personally do not know anyone who has died in either

I've known friends the have died for various reasons and I've had close family members die.
Cant say one death is less painfull then the other.

In any event is still doent give you any kind of monopoly on the opinion on the war.
Nor does it make your views or opinions any more valid then anyone elses.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by SkyRock
We got wipped because of the support the north was getting from CHina, Russia, and others in the region.  Tet,  '68  was the beginning of the end in vietnem.

Sorry about jumping on your previous post, but the thread is about Iraq, and since the one you rather ambiguously responded to was also about Iraq and mentioned policies followed in Somalia and Vietnam to bolster his Iraq argument, you can see how I may have misconstrued.

However, to follow the VN tangent, in 1967 the effort of the NVA and VC aganist SVN and USA and Allies, (incl Aussies IIRC) was about on its last legs, as recalled by NVA generals.

They conceived of Tet because they believed that they could snatch victory from defeat.  The anti war movement in the USA showed them a way to do it and they thought that if they could make a big enough splash in the news and bolster the college demonstrations, the USA would withdraw. It worked perfectly even though militarily Tet was a victory for SVN/USA.  Tet virtually destroyed the VC.  After '68, the VC virtually dissappeared as a fighting force in the feild.

We didn't lose by attrition, we lost because we weren't sufficeintly united behind the cause.