could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)

[NUKE]

Originally posted by tikky
lol u forced the mexicans to sell California and others at VERY low price when the *destiny* seekers destroyed Mexico for not giving up their land years ago.


On February 2, 1848, The Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo was signed, later to be ratified by both the U.S. and Mexican Congresses. The treaty called for the annexation of the northern portions of Mexico to the United States. In return, the U.S. agreed to pay $15 million to Mexico as compensation for the seized territory.

Yeah, they lost a war.

Louisianna Purchase from France (most of the land between the Mississippi river to the east and up to the Rocky mountains, War of Indepedence, Texas joined the US, we purchased Alaska from Russia, Mexico ceded Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada and Colorado land after a war and treaty in which we paid them for it.

All legally.

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, they lost a war.

Louisianna Purchase from France (most of the land between the Mississippi river to the east and up to the Rocky mountains, War of Indepedence, Texas joined the US, we purchased Alaska from Russia, Mexico ceded Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada and Colorado land after a war and treaty in which we paid them for it.

All legally.

…let me get this straight. US invaded Mexican land, destroyed their army, attacked and seized their capital, but all that was legal? Care to re-read your own history without propaganda glasses?

Let me help you. Mexico was looking for ways to increase population in Texas (Mexican land). They allowed US residents to enter Mexican land under three conditions; they must convert to catholism, they cannot bring slaves and they must become Mexican citizens. None of dements were met. Once Mexico realized that, it was too late. US claimed, based on idiotic idea of Manifest Destiny, that Texas was theirs.    
So you call…this is legal?

[NUKE]

Texas was not part of the US when they declared independence from Mexico. Texas was it's own country.

Mexico then attacked US troops in Texas. They lost the war.

Texas was a Spanish/Mexican territory that Amewricans had been settling in.

By the way, how do you think Mexico and Spain got that land? We got it after a war, fair and square.......and signed a treaty and paid for it.

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
Texas was not part of the US when they declared independence from Mexico. Texas was it's own country.

Mexico then attacked US troops in Texas. They lost the war.

Texas was a Spanish/Mexican territory that Amewricans had been settling in.

By the way, how do you think Mexico and Spain got that land? We got it after a war, fair and square.......and signed a treaty and paid for it.

Is this thing on? Can you hear me?

It was MEXICAN land (granted it was taken away from natives, just as US did). You invaded it. Those are facts.

[NUKE]

Also, just before Mexico crossed into the Nation of Texas ( 10 years old), the British ceded Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and part of Montana to the US.

Texas had American and Mexican settlers since before Mexico won it's independence from Spain. The people of Texas, both Mexicans and Americans, declared idependence from Mexico.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Russian
Is this thing on? Can you hear me?

It was MEXICAN land (granted it was taken away from natives, just as US did). You invaded it. Those are facts.

Texas was setteled by Americans before Mexico was a country. Texas declared it's independence from Mexico, just as Mexico did from Spain.

Texas was an independent nation recognized by Britain, France and the US........for 10 years. Then Mexico invaded it.

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
Also, just before Mexico crossed into the Nation of Texas ( 10 years old), the British ceded Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and part of Montana to the US.

Texas had American and Mexican settlers since before Mexico won it's independence from Spain. The people of Texas, both Mexicans and Americans, declared idependence from Mexico.

Wow….this is unbelievable. So you are saying that US was there before Mexicans(Spanish)? Why don’t you pick up history book, preferably from neutral source, and read it.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Russian
Wow….this is unbelievable. So you are saying that US was there before Mexicans(Spanish)? Why don’t you pick up history book, preferably from neutral source, and read it.

The Spanish were there. I'm saying that Americans settled in the area before Mexico was a country. When Mexico gained independence from Spain, Texas was largly neglected. The American and Mexican settlers who had lived there since before Mexico became a nation, declared their independence from Mexico.

Mexico then attacked Texas the first time, and Texes won it's independence.

10 years later, Mexico wanted to get Texas back, and the poeple of Texes were also concerned that the British were about to annex Texas, along with the Oregon territories. They decided to seek the protection of the US, which then annexed Texas and sent troops to the border. Mexico crossed the border and the US declared war on Mexico.

Britain decided to cede the Oregeon territories to the US rather than push another war.

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
The Spanish were there. I'm saying that Americans settled in the area before Mexico was a country. When Mexico gained independence from Spain, Texas was largly neglected. The American and Mexican settlers who had lived there since before Mexico became a nation, declared their independence from Mexico.

Mexico then attacked Texas the first time, and Texes won it's independence.

10 years later, Mexico wanted to get Texas back, and the poeple of Texes were also concerned that the British were about to annex Texas, along with the Oregon territories. They decided to seek the protection of the US, which then annexed Texas and sent troops to the border. Mexico crossed the border and the US declared war on Mexico.

Britain decided to cede the Oregeon territories to the US rather than push another war.

 The land was Spanish, then when Mexico declared independence, the land became theirs. Those are facts. You can twist all you want to, but US invaded other nation under false pretenses and gained land. Maybe next you will tell us how US saved poor natives from themselves. Those evil savages!

Can you return to original topic. Please keep telling Russian people how evil and terrible their life was during ‘oppression’.

[NUKE]

The nation of Texas gained it's idependence from Mexico it then became theirs, as you say, just like Mexico did from Spain. What's the problem?

10 years later, the NATION of Texas aligned with the US for protection against Mexico.

That's not twisting anything, that's history.

And by the way, I never said how evil and terrible Russian life was.

[cpxxx]

Originally posted by lazs2

How am I supposed to reconcile that with what these commies here are telling me?
lazs

I don't think it's the Russians who moved west who think like that by and large.

I know a few Russians and others from the Soviet Union living here in Ireland. They have take to capitalism like a duck to water. If they don't have a business of their own, then they have two jobs. One Russian friend has a full time job, drives a DHL truck on his days off and buys and sells German cars.  He certainly is no Stalinist nor does he hark back to the 'good old days'.  

Unfortunately Boroda has probably never lived in the west at all. That I believe has coloured his perception. Quite a few Russians are like that. All they see are the negatives. It was indoctrinated into to them form many years. Western Capitalism = Bad. Communism, socialism = good.

Boroda has quite rightly pointed out that currently Russia is corrupt and badly run to the benefit of only a few. What he probably doesn't realise is that it was probably always so just that he never got to hear of it. Until the USSR collapsed that is.

Communism doesn't work and in any case is rarely practised as it usually ends up as a totalitarian state.

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
The nation of Texas gained it's idependence from Mexico it then became theirs, as you say, just like Mexico did from Spain. What's the problem?

10 years later, the NATION of Texas aligned with the US for protection against Mexico.

That's not twisting anything, that's history.

And by the way, I never said how evil and terrible Russian life was.

Land was Spanish. Fact
After independence land was Mexican. Fact
Spain/Mexican allowed US residents/citizens to enter land. Fact
After majority of population became US citizens, US declared Texas theirs. Fact.
Therefore, US entered land of foreign nation and declared it its own. Is that not illegal? Since currently California’s and Texas’ population is majority by Mexicans, should they declare ‘independence’? Do you not see irony here?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Russian
Land was Spanish. Fact
After independence land was Mexican. Fact
Spain/Mexican allowed US residents/citizens to enter land. Fact
After majority of population became US citizens, US declared Texas theirs. Fact.
Therefore, US entered land of foreign nation and declared it its own. Is that not illegal? Since currently California’s and Texas’ population is majority by Mexicans, should they declare ‘independence’? Do you not see irony here?

So, you ignore the fact that Texas won it's independence from Mexico and became it's own nation? Thats a fact, and if you are okay with Mexico becoming a nation by declaring idependence from Spain, then you should be okay with the Texas declaring it's idependence from Mexico.

You are amazing.

[Russian]

Originally posted by NUKE
So, you ignore the fact that Texas won it's independence from Mexico and became it's own nation? Thats a fact, and if you are okay with Mexico becoming a nation by declaring idependence from Spain, then you should be okay with the Texas declaring it's idependence from Mexico.

You are amazing.

I’m amazing, thank you.

I would be OK if it was done by Spanish/Mexicans. It was done by ‘illegals’ jumping fences (border line). Then those illegals declare that land magically becomes theirs.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Russian
I’m amazing, thank you.

I would be OK if it was done by Spanish/Mexicans. It was done by ‘illegals’ jumping fences (border line). Then those illegals declare that land magically becomes theirs.

It wasn't done by people jumping the fence. It was a spanish territory and had mexicans and americans living there long before mexico declared independence. BOTH American AND Mexican citzens of Texas declared, then won their independence from Mexico. Fair and square.