PC on earth, goodwill towards (all humans regardless of gender)

[midnight Target]

OK all you "PC haters" - what the heck is wrong with it? I don't mean the psychopathic PC diatribe like in the title of this post. I mean the REAL reason for it. To make sure that we are not knowingly or unknowingly causing harm to a group of people through tasteless, incorrect or ignorant labels.

ie:
boy - Black man
chief - any American Indian
Babe - a woman (especially degrading to a stranger)
monkey - black children

or gender based labels such as:
Fireman
Postman
Doorman
Boxboy
etc.
It wasn't that long ago when women were looked upon as strange to even try to become firefighters or police officers. Look at the figures from 20 years ago and today. Now PC speak wasn't the only reason changes occurred, but it did open the eyes of the public to the commonly held misconseptions that pervaded our society. Well? Whats wrong with it?

[capt. apathy]

The problem is it's carried too far. Even your post is out of line 'black man' is now offensive it's Afro-American.
 My son was in advanced studies throughout school, when a teacher expressed how well he was doing I off-handedly (oh wait did I just slam lefties) mentioned that he has always been fairly smart.
I was informed that they aren't using 'that term' anymore.  Apparently by acknowledging that he is smart you are implying that other kids are unsmart or dumb.
The new term is 'additionally abled'
People are no longer short but vertically challenged.
No longer clumsy but nimbly challenged.
Screw it just cut the crap and say what you mean.  If somebody gets offended their skin probably needed thickening anyway

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

[Swoop]

LOL.


I work with a Somalilander (NOT Somalian as he's so fond of pointing out), a Nigerian, a Surinamee, and a Jamaican.  If I called any of em Afro-Americans I'd get a real wierd look.

They call me 'white boy', the Jamaican is a very dark shade so he gets called 'black boy' by the others.  I dont mind, they dont mind, it aint no big deal.  In this office I'm an ethnic minority.     .  The Nigerian claims to be a Zulu but then we found out he's was born in Brixton (GB) and only went to Nigeria once.....and Zulus aint from Nigeria anyway.....so he gets called 'white boy' as well when we wanna annoy him.    


Political correctness is only needed when someone clearly isnt.  In this place none of us give crap about that and call each other whatever we like.

 

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Swoop ]

[Tumor]

Originally posted by capt. apathy:
The problem is it's carried too far. Even your post is out of line 'black man' is now offensive it's Afro-American.
 My son was in advanced studies throughout school, when a teacher expressed how well he was doing I off-handedly (oh wait did I just slam lefties) mentioned that he has always been fairly smart.
I was informed that they aren't using 'that term' anymore.  Apparently by acknowledging that he is smart you are implying that other kids are unsmart or dumb.
The new term is 'additionally abled'
People are no longer short but vertically challenged.
No longer clumsy but nimbly challenged.
Screw it just cut the crap and say what you mean.  If somebody gets offended their skin probably needed thickening anyway

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

  As an American first and foremost, I am offended by the term "African American" and I demand you not use it.

....THAT is and example of PC and whats wrong with it.  True, I can't stand the term, but who am I to tell you not to use it?

Tumor

[Thrawn]

Hey Swoop, I hear you.  I've a black friend who jokingly calls me whitey from time to time.  Thing is he's my friend.  

If another black person called me whitey I'd be pissed, as I wouldn't know the context it was in.  Was it an insult?  Was he kidding?

As far as PC terms are concered, I use them with strangers, as I don't feel any need to insult strangers, so, I do my try my best not to.  If it's someone that I know that won't be insulted or understand the context within which I'm using a non PC term, then I'll feel free to do so.

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Thrawn ]

[easymo]

The irony for me, is that the PPCM who call for understanding.  Are the last people on earth to offer it.

  I was setting in a restaurant a couple of years ago.  A sweet, little gray haired, old lady made her way all the way across this, a very large place. It took her a good 5 minutes to do so. Finally ariving at my table she announced that I should "put the diddlying weed out".  I pointed out one of the many Smoking Section signs hanging in the area.  She said. " I don't care. Put it out our I will slap it out of your mouth Pointing at the Smoking Section sign again, I said "Get the diddly out of my face our I will show you something really offensive".  Apparently my feelings on the matter must have show on my face.  She got quite pale and shambled off.

  I am old enough to remember White Only signs above drinking fountains.  When I see a no smoking sign.  I get the same feeling of outrage, at the unfairness of it, that those old signs gave me as a boy.

  Over the years, black people have committed every crime imaginable against whites.  For decades these have been committed at a rate far in excess of the black populations numbers.  To hold black people, in general, responsible for these criminal acts is wrong.  And is called racial profiling.

  Over the years, white people have committed every crime imaginable against blacks.  To hold white people, in general, responsible for these criminal acts is called politically correct.

  I could go on pointing out these little inconsistencies until my fingers grew numb. Not much point.  Understanding is a one way street with Perfectly PC mutants.

[Boroda]

PC is a justified hypocricy.

Do you want me to call black people in Moscow "Afro-Africans"?

Shit, I was heavily injured once when I tried to protect a black guy from boneheads (gopniki), but I call black people "negro" (nyegr) because it is a Russian word for Africans. And "black" (chyorniy) is an offencive nickname for people from Caucasus.

[Seeker]

Do we all get the same discovery channel? (I'm in Denmark).

There's a program being aired at the moment called "blue eyes", produced by Gary Oldman.

It's about an American teacher, a little old lady; that teaches "the racist experience".

A fantastic program, and what seems to be a gifted teacher. Watch it if you can.

[AKSWulfe]

Getting offended by being called whitey?

Sheeit, I've been called cracker, pastry, spook, saltine, honkey, whiteboy, etc.

It's the color of my damn skin, I got no reason to be offended. I sure as hell am not offended.

I guess that's what seperates people who grow up as a minority and people who grow up in the majority. I was born and raised in Washington, DC- when you are talking the "minorities", in my neighborhood, *I* was the minority.

It's one thing to call a black man a cupcake, and another thing to call him a black man (as opposed to boy, african or darky) if you don't know him.

The only people who get offended by that are lil' whiney sweetyes, and they don't deserve to breath the same air as me. You got offended? Oh no! I get told things everyday of my life that offend me, but I don't get my panties in a bunch and whimper about it or call up Jesse Jackson to defend my honor. I hoist my nuts over my shoulder and carry on, that's what's it's all about. Not letting garbage get to you- because that's all it's intended to do!! Or have people forgotten that in the last 20 years???????

Do they make a "reality" pill? I sure as hell think they need to!!!
-SW

[Eagler]

Originally posted by SWulfe:
Getting offended by being called whitey?

Sheeit, I've been called cracker, pastry, spook, saltine, honkey, whiteboy, etc.

It's the color of my damn skin, I got no reason to be offended. I sure as hell am not offended.

I guess that's what seperates people who grow up as a minority and people who grow up in the majority. I was born and raised in Washington, DC- when you are talking the "minorities", in my neighborhood, *I* was the minority.

It's one thing to call a black man a cupcake, and another thing to call him a black man (as opposed to boy, african or darky) if you don't know him.

The only people who get offended by that are lil' whiney sweetyes, and they don't deserve to breath the same air as me. You got offended? Oh no! I get told things everyday of my life that offend me, but I don't get my panties in a bunch and whimper about it or call up Jesse Jackson to defend my honor. I hoist my nuts over my shoulder and carry on, that's what's it's all about. Not letting garbage get to you- because that's all it's intended to do!! Or have people forgotten that in the last 20 years???????

Do they make a "reality" pill? I sure as hell think they need to!!!
-SW

yep, guess they can't do what we did:
kick their arse if the odds were there or keep quiet and walk alittle faster if they weren't..

[midnight Target]

Growing up as a white minority in whatever section of the Country you may be from is not the same as growing up as a minority or group that has been persecuted for generations. Do you honestly think "whitey" and "cupcake" are equivalent terms?

Yes, the civil rights movement helped to end the legal persecution of a race, but there is still an undercurrent of racism running through our land that is perfectly obvious when you open your eyes to see.

Here is an example of how the PC movement assisted us in our perception of our fellow humans:

20 yrs ago - A black man held up a liquor store today.
Today - A man held up a liquor store today, he was decribed as black...etc.

If you don't see the difference you are not trying.

[AKSWulfe]

I think you are trying too hard to see a difference. He's a man either way, the way to describe him is just changed around in it's order.

That's the difference between someone who grows up as a white minority versus some white guy who grows up in the boondocks with other races as minorities.

Fact is, PCness does more to segregate and force viewing each other in terms of sex, race or religion than it does to congregate us in a big 'ol boiling pot of color.

This undercurrent of racism is something I experienced growing up- it was directed at me. I no longer experience it since I am grown up, because it ain't so easy to call someone your size a _____ versus someone who's much younger.

You can beat around the bush all you want, change the order of the words, and use any description you want- in the end it all comes down to what sex was the person? What color was the person? What height? Build? etc

The first two do a lot more to narrow down the search than anything else.

I was born and raised in Washington, DC and still work here. Maybe my thoughts on PC garbage are based on the fact I was raised to treat people with respect if they showed it to me. I am not gonna sugar coat something just because, and I sure as hell am not gonna sugar coat something if someone's being a salamander- don't care about sex,color, religion.
-SW

[miko2d]

Originally posted by easymo:
When I see a no smoking sign.  I get the same feeling of outrage, at the unfairness of it, that those old signs gave me as a boy.

 What is so unfair about them? Your smoking habit is really invasive towards the other people. It's not like they can ignore noxious fumes that you produce.
 If someone stranger derived enjoyment from coming to you and poking you with his fist or a pole in your solar plexus hard enough to cause headache and nausea and cause admittedly minor but cumulative and lasting damage, you would not like it. But when you do it to others with poisonous chemical substances that cause fire alarms to go off and birds drop dead in their cages, that is somehow OK?
 You are given the smoking areas that normal people know to keep away from, be happy with that.

 There are quite a few limitations imposed on us for the sake of safety and well-being of others that affect really important aspects of our lifes, not just habits:
 - shooting firearms on dedicated ranges, not in residential areas;
 - driving cars in the street, not on the sidewalk - and even there in very specific ways (speed, direction);
 - washing cars in rivers and disposing of oil and other pollutants there;

 The lady had no more business interfering with your smoking in the designated area then she would trying to stop me from making noises with AK-47 on the range or driving my car in the street. If she could still fill the smoke where she sat, she had to take it with the restaurant owner or city officials for improper ventilation arrangements.
 That does not mean that causing discomfort to others in public areas is your right.

 BTW - I do not want to make an impression that I am against smoking. I think it is extremely beneficial to our society. I would never try to dissuade anyone who is not my friend or relative from it.


 On more general topic of PC - it is in line with the tendency in US society over the last 50 years to codify human behavior in a set of laws, rules, regulations and customs that try to ensure total fairness and leave no place for uncertainity and desision.
 That is not going to work any better then communism did.
 A person is offencive when he/she wants to offend. It is perfectly possible to offend someone without using any words from the "list" - sometime just with a look or attitude.
 If another person wants to take offence, he/she will find a pretext to interpret any action/inaction as offencive.

 miko

[Fatty]

Tah Gut, I have never known boy to be a racial slang.  As a matter of fact, it is not and never has been.  It is or can be an insult, as it is calling someone a child, but this is regardless of the race of the recipient and dependent upon context.

The fact you would list it among words not to say is a very strong factor driving opposition to PC.

As for words, gender is a fact of all romance languages, and we will have to learn to live with the fact that the masculine form of a word can indicate males, or it can simply indicate people, with no reference to gender.  Or, we can waste the next 500 years trying to restructure the English language from the top down, worrying someone might get offended.

[capt. apathy]

i honestly think pc speak does more to drive a wedge between groups then heal anything.  why would i bother talking(sociely) to people who get offended or constantly try to 'enlighten' me as to the proper term for their or any other group.  frankly when i meet people like that (of any race, or group) i take care of whatever business that put me in contact with them, then get the hell away from them and avoid them at all costs.  
 they make me uncomfortable, but that doesn't seem to matter. why is it my obligation to jump through hoops to learn the term of the week for groups (who can't seem to hold onto a discriptive term for themselves with out it eventually feeling like an insult) just so they can feel comfortable.
 why should i care if someone who makes me feel uncomfortable is comfortable?