Observations on new 109s

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by monteini
I now you lw guys like to complain but just look at the k/d rates d-9 is 1.5 and K-4 is 1.4 both these numbers beat all spits, p47's, p-38's, f6f, f4u's not perked, hurries, yakes, la's and p-51's so I dont see why your complaining.

If something is modeled wrong then it should be fixed oh smart one. Such as the flaps on the 109s.

[Wilbus]

KillNu I haven't forgotten about the films. I am waiting for a Sidewinder Precission Pro 2 stick to arrive before I can post some films for ya. I can't aim with the Cougar at the moment, can't make small let alone micro adjustments.

Give me a few more days to get the stick and get used to it and I will hopefully have some tater films ready!

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by monteini
I now you lw guys like to complain but just look at the k/d rates d-9 is 1.5 and K-4 is 1.4 both these numbers beat all spits, p47's, p-38's, f6f, f4u's not perked, hurries, yakes, la's and p-51's so I dont see why your complaining.

K/D doesn't mean jack sh** when messuring plane performance. Biggest reason the LW birds have better K/D is that they are MOSTLY flown by AH vets.

Most n00bs fly allied.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by Wilbus
K/D doesn't mean jack sh** when messuring plane performance. Biggest reason the LW birds have better K/D is that they are MOSTLY flown by AH vets.

Most n00bs fly allied.

Now that I have dropped the 109s, I've been flying the LA7 a bit, and I think it has real potential.  It makes even a dweeb like me look good.

But the Spit16 may be the best choice?

[Apar]

I said before in the A&V forum:

I flew the K4 quite a bit in the last week and came to the conclusion that it performs less then the G10. High speed handling hasn't changed much but it seems as if its turn rate at medium and low speeds has decreased (i can't measure it but feel it when flat turning la's and yak's now in K4 compared to G10 before). It decelerates accelerates less then before (takes longer, more overshoots against other planes now). The most noticeable change is its stall fight performance. It is "less stable" in roll around stall and it doesn't wing over as easy as before (even with flaps).

In total it simply feels as if the plane is heavier then before, maybe even a shift in CG.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Grits
Wetrat is 100% correct of course. The K-4 is identical to the old G-10 except for the weapons. Performance is identical, its the relative performance of its opponents that have changed. Like he said, the 109's always sucked just as much as they do now, what has changed is not them, before you were fighting Spit V's and now you are fighting Spit VIII/XVI's. The performance gap to the 109's opponents has closed (dissapeared) and therefore its relative performance HAS changed even though its absolute performance numbers have not.

Spot on.

Unless you choose to disbelieve HT's post stating that the G10/K4 FM is IDENTICAL, nothing changed apart from armament.

[Grits]

Originally posted by wrag
Then IMHO you never pushed the 109 to it's limit.  I have said before there was a HUGH change from AHI to AHII.

I stallfight Spits and Hurricanes with the G-10/K-4, does that count as "pushing" them? I furball EVERYTHING I fly on the deck, including 109's and 190's.

If you reread my post i said "since AH2", clearly every plane changed with the transition from AH1. I am responding to those that say every time we get a patch that fixes a bug with how TREES[/b] are shown, they claim the 109's and 190's get worse, its pure delusional fantasy.

Originally posted by storch
you will never convince them, they are all knowing and their word is law.  the spit is the be all, end all.  in fact if they brought the spit to bear today it would defeat even the mighty F22 while it's driver was applying makeup at 390mph in the diamond dave lane.  the only reason they don't because they are far too modest to embarass the USAF.

A couple things Storch:

1. I never said the 109's and 190's are CORRECT, I only disagree (and think I have proved) that they have not changed SINCE the move to AH2. I think there are several areas that the LW rides could be made better (most clearly the 109 flap deployment speeds are too low).

2. Instead of being a snide chitsstirrer making smartarse remarks about me, why dont you get off your duff and find some way to prove that the planes in question and prove they HAVE[/b] changed? I'll tell you why, you know you cant do it because you know I am correct, yet this is too good of an opportunity for you to vent your same old tired rant about conspiracy's against   the LW.

Until then, you should put up or shut up.

[Krusty]

Kev, it's not a matter of believing in HT. HT is never untruthful. However, some folks don't realize just how complex even simple programs can be. This is far from a simple program.

HT assures us "it's the same" but we know for a fact it's not. He's probably thinking that the dataset for "plane x" (in this case the g10) is the same as the dataset for "plane y" (in this case the k4), and they are, but what he's not looking at is the code change where the airflow over the wings at point z is not totally fubard, or the point where G spikes occur at 2 Gs when they ought to only occur at 6 Gs, or the part of the code that says "only at this speed will this event happen" and the speed is 10x faster than it ought to be, or fill in the blank here.

It's different. It's just not an obvious thing to say "why" it's different. Discounting the obvious is only going to delay fixing the problem. It obviously changed, and we the players have no idea how its coded, so htc the coders have to do it all on their end. We need to let them know that something is wrong, so that they can plan to eventually go through thousands of lines of code and say "Hey, you know what? That decimal is in the wrong place". And debugging code is neither easy for quick. You saying nothing is wrong will only make htc not bother looking for the hidden problem.

[Kev367th]

Understood Krusty -

But if the FMs are the same, then it must be something globaly that has changed, i.e. it affects all planes.
Its not as though the actually shape of the model influences the performance. You could put a 100ft sail on a Zeke model and with the identical FM it would perform the same as the standard model.

In which case if the FM didn't change, it has to be something globally that affects all planes. (maybe some more than others).

But I have to agree with Grits and others who have tried both out (k4/G10).
They say they are identical, its not they got worse, but the performance gap narrowed between them and others.

[Krusty]

Again we have no way of knowing what logic path the data takes. It might have modules associated with each plane, it might have all the data integrated, with long sets of data and information all in one central location, so that everything from G loading to acceleration to drag in high speed dives is all separate for each aircraft, and whenever you take a plane all of this is loaded at once.

So we don't know anything about how it works, but it could be that the problem data is specific to a plane or plane type (i.e. all 109s -- example: all 109s had roll related changes in 2.06, rolling much slower at low speeds. That could be an overall code module that applies to all 109s, or it could be separate info in each and every 109, who knows?)

[Kev367th]

Looked back though latest two patches notes, I see nothing that says changes were made to 109 roll rates.
Only mention is a cosmetic change to 190E slats.

[Iceman24]

LW = fodder for any US plane with a descent stick, just slow down a lil and don't overshoot and there easy to kill.... I fly them every now and then just to feel how crappy they feel, there fast and climb nice, but gun ballistics suck so bad and once they get under 200mph your toast, IMHO there only good for porking and buff hunting, maybe b n z if your a good snapshot artist.... what i dont understand is how there can be that big of a differance between the US/British cannons / MG's than the LW planes, there 20 and 30mm rounds are like throwing rocks at the other plane, and the MG's are useless, and the damage is way lower than the US / British guns and cannons... its like a LW 30mm has the effect of a 20mm hispano, and the 20mm LW rounds are like .50 cals from US planes.... the LA7's savak 20mm's seem to have way better ballistics and punch than the LW's as well and I know that can't be right, can it ?..... I fly against allot of LW planes and they really should be fixed, many many US pilots said that the 109 and 190 were by far the best planes they have seen and in this game IMHO they are crap

[Shamus]

My big b**** is with the cockpit views, the f4 is still ok, tho i I still miss the gondi option for furballs.

I used to fly the g2 a lot and I still have to say that low speed handling seems worse, view related?, dunno..bottom line is that it's no fun to fly any longer.

shamus

[Mr No Name]

Originally posted by Iceman24
LW = fodder for any US plane with a descent stick, just slow down a lil and don't overshoot and there easy to kill.... I fly them every now and then just to feel how crappy they feel, there fast and climb nice, but gun ballistics suck so bad and once they get under 200mph your toast, IMHO there only good for porking and buff hunting, maybe b n z if your a good snapshot artist.... what i dont understand is how there can be that big of a differance between the US/British cannons / MG's than the LW planes, there 20 and 30mm rounds are like throwing rocks at the other plane, and the MG's are useless, and the damage is way lower than the US / British guns and cannons... its like a LW 30mm has the effect of a 20mm hispano, and the 20mm LW rounds are like .50 cals from US planes.... the LA7's savak 20mm's seem to have way better ballistics and punch than the LW's as well and I know that can't be right, can it ?..... I fly against allot of LW planes and they really should be fixed, many many US pilots said that the 109 and 190 were by far the best planes they have seen and in this game IMHO they are crap

LW planes and ballistics are horribly neutered here and Commie planes are based on kremlin specs

[Iceman24]

LW planes and ballistics are horribly neutered here and Commie planes are based on kremlin specs

Yeah I understand there may be a little differance, but nothing like it is now, no major gripe on my part cause I don't fly them allot, but for the guys that do it would be nice to be able to hit something... I made a post a few weeks back saying I was flying a 262 and hit a spit with 3 ea 30mm rounds in the same wing, nuthing happened except an aleron loss, to me it would seem 1 should be enough to take out just about anything