Kabul is bombed.

[Staga]

I still haven't seen Boroda going personal insults like Maverick  

[Czpetr]

Originally posted by Boroda:


I do support the anti-Talib war. But bombing cities is too much. Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Yalu-tsyan power stations, Hanoi, Belgrad, Kabul... Better find the terrorists, and don't touch civilians. Like Russians do in Chechnya.[/QB]

Where did you hear/read that CITIES are bombed? As far as everybody else knows only MILITARY targets are bombed, terrorist camps, AA defence etc. NOT civilian targets. Similitude to bombing Dresden etc. is totally unmatched.

Is the heavy artillery bombardment of Grozny city, full of civilians, the Russian way to "find the terrorists, and don't touch civilians" ?
You should put one's house in order first.

czpetr

[LtHans]

Everyone's media is VERY biased towards their own side's point of view.  Everyones.

Just go to TerhanTimes.com and read the rhetoric, particularily the racist stuff about anybody who isn't Muslim.  If you beleave them, we're nothing but Zionist hypocrits and pupets of the Jews.  They don't even beleave it was Arab suicide pilots, but American dissendents that did this (with the help of Jews).  They never pass up an oportunity to blame the Jews for everything.  These are they're words.

Still, if Russia is reporting that we're carpet bombing cities, tell your Russian friends that our media is reporting the opposite, that we are targeting very specific targets with as much accuracy as possible.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Hans.

[-tronski-]

What disturbs me is that in the defence of your "freedoms", anyone who doesn't share your version of that freedom is wrong and instantly attacked.
Quite frankly the Anti-Taliban fervour suprises me considering that the original target was Osama Bin-Laden. Does this war on terrorism mean the rest of the world can expect Stealth bombers over Belfast, or marines in the streets of Barcelona rooting out Basque seperatists? Or even better troops in the streets of Boston searching for the major fund raising operations of the IRA??

Or after the dust has settled in Afghanistan, and a crater where the remains of Osama Bin-Laden are supposed to be are flashed all over CNN will the "official" war be over and the soldiers sent home?

Dont' assume that the concerns of the minor players are to ignored, because the US Military are playing with the lives of our servicemen and women too.

When the graves of Australian Diggers are being marked in the dust of Afghanistan, will we then be allowed our own freedom of opinion?
Or just told to stop being naive and stand quietly in the corner?

 Tronsky

[Toad]

Well, Boroda even if...IF... 150,000 is a correct number, it's a far, far cry from 500,000.

Further, given the nature of Afganistan's infrastructure, I doubt we'll be doing anywhere near as much in populated areas as we did in Iraq. (The first time; stay tuned.)

Beyond that, as others have already mentioned in this thread, your concern for the Afghan civilians is sort of touching... considering the mines that were disguised as children's toys that your country spread around a few years back.

And, of course, the gentle, humane treatment that the civilians of Grozny in particular and Chechnya as a whole come to mind as examples of what a truly compassionate State does when it seeks to "root out terrorism". BTW, are there ANY civilians left alive in Grozny? Must be a few... Russian certainly couldn't have killed them all yet, could they?

As for fighting on the Uzbekistan border, I would think the worst mistake the Taliban could make would be to concentrate troops. Anywhere. It's what a B-52 does best. I think it would seriously shorten the entire scenario if we COULD get the Taliban to concentrate troops. Dispersal is their best friend.

Well, won't be around the computer much this week.. enjoy to arguments!

[-lynx-]

Commonwealth borders are guarded by Russian troops. I expect Taliban invading Uzbekistan and Tajikistan in a matter of days or even hours.

Last time I checked US troops (10th Mountain Div.) were landing in Uzbekistan to protect the airbase Americans are using there. BBC reporter also said that there were combat troops there too.

Taliban has no resources to invade anything. The very same Americans that bombed military targets in 3 cities during the very same night unloaded 37,000 ration packs over villages starved by Taliban. All reports from refugee camps and food distribuiton centres show unloading sacks of foodstuffs with "USA" printed all over them.

Wake up pal, America is not the enemy, not anymore in any case.

 

Dinger, they will never admit bombing civilians. Did you see Iraqui TV showing a destroyed bomb shelter in 1991? CNN said it was a military installation.

And why did you believe Iraqi's? Particularly trustworthy news source, eh? The very same TV showed people confessing to just about anything, mass demonstrations... Hell, I do remember demonstrating when I was a kid - it was a day off school. No more no less. You were told to go and "demonstrate"

 

I do support the anti-Talib war. But bombing cities is too much. Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Yalu-tsyan power stations, Hanoi, Belgrad, Kabul... Better find the terrorists, and don't touch civilians. Like Russians do in Chechnya.

Let's not go there. My parents escaped from Grozny. My mom cried on the phone when she saw their apartment block as a pile of rubble.

No-one is going to be "bombing cities". The only indiscriminate "bombing" would be unloading of food supplies. The whole refugee crisis in Pakistan is probably Taliban's own making. The news are full of starving families from Afganistan "escaping in fear of American invasion". Most of villages don't even have radios - how the hell do they know they were being "invaded"???

 

Clean up your own backyard first bud.
 

Deja - how true. You helped them to be killed. Armed them, fed them, trained them... Remember?

[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: -lynx- ]

[batdog]

I was going to make a smart bellybutton reply to Borada and his comments but hell... its like beating on a deaf dumb and blind man...


xBAT

[Cabby44]

Quote:

"Does this war on terrorism mean the rest of the world can expect Stealth bombers over Belfast, or marines in the streets of Barcelona rooting out Basque seperatists? "

If any of the above mentioned launch, shelter, or encourage terrorist attacks on American soil yeah, expect retaliation in force.  Don't forget to duck.....

The United States has the duty and responsibility to defend it's territory and citizens from attack.  If YOU can't abide that, too bad.  

Boroda:

LOL!!  You point fingers at the USA for killing civilians??  Isn't your country the one who featured "The New Soviet Man" Josef Stalin, who MURDERED 20 million of his OWN PEOPLE during "peacetime" for cryin' out loud??  

BTW, "America-Bashers", you are indeed "entitled"(by the efforts of others)to your opinion.  And other people are also "entitled" to tell you to take your opinion and shove it.......

Cabby

[-lynx-]

LOL!! You point fingers at the USA for killing civilians?? Isn't your country the one who featured "The New Soviet Man" Josef Stalin, who MURDERED 20 million of his OWN PEOPLE during "peacetime" for cryin' out loud??

Cabby - lets stick to the current stuff, OK? Josef Stalin wasn't "new". He was the first Soviet man, as in the first head of that Soviet state which is no longer there. If you want to go down that road, let's remember millions of native Americans who were exterminated to make way for your ancestors. No-one is "clean handed" and bashing and ridiculing your opponent is not going to get anything resolved.

[-lynx-]

What a pile of toejam!    

Beyond that, as others have already mentioned in this thread, your concern for the Afghan civilians is sort of touching... considering the mines that were disguised as children's toys that your country spread around a few years back.

Toad - do you know anyone personally who saw those mines??? I went to university with guys who fought there. They knew oh so well about those fancy mines... Why don't you stop yapping about something you have no f***ing clue about?  

And while you at it - why don't you understand that Chechnya is full of little "bin laddens"? They come and kill and blow up buildings and underground stations...  Are you against military operation in Afganistan or is it "one rule for us and another one for them"??? Flipping hippocrites

[Cabby44]

Quote:

"If you want to go down that road, let's remember millions of native Americans who were exterminated to make way for your ancestors"

Talk about revisionist "roadkill".......

Don't compare America then, or now, to any murderous totalitarian regimes then, or now.  If you insist on putting America on the same level as these evil governments i take it for what it is:  Leftist/Socialist America-Bashing Propaganda.  

As for Russian activities in Chechnya, it's a problem for the Russians to handle as best they can.  I'm more inclined to side with the secular, trying-to-be-Democratic Russian government over that of any totalitarian, religious, Muslim government/rebels.........

Cabby

[leonid]

Boroda,

Ti molodets  

[Naso]

Sieg heil Cabby, Sieg heil!

 

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by -lynx-:


 If you want to go down that road, let's remember millions of native Americans who were exterminated to make way for your ancestors. No-one is "clean handed" and bashing and ridiculing your opponent is not going to get anything resolved.

Lets not forget they all came from England too.

 

[Boroda]

Lynx, you summed up what I wanted to say.

Looks like when Americans bomb anyone "to stone age" - they always fight for "freedom and democracy", while poor rooskie barbarians always kill innocent people or "freedom fighters". If you want to fight terrorists - then please, no double standards. We do one job.

Toad, your "toy bomb" remark is outstanding. The deepest degree of ignorance. I never expected anything like this from you.

Russian operation in Chechnya is against terrorist/gangster "state" that formed there in early 90-s. And stop pointing at that Grozniy pictures. Army gave a few days for civilians to leave the city. Measures to save civilians are unbelievable. Believe me, it could be much easier to bomb them from 10km high then to send troops to restore order. Chechnya is 60 (sixty) times smaller then Afghanistan, and our losses there were maybe 2-3 times more then in Afghan war.

About cities being bombed: I said that I couldn't get to any news site, probably because of overload. The first thing media said here was: "Americans started bombing Kabul". The reaction of my friends on the ICQ was "Damn, they are bombing someone again, instead of catching bloody terrorists and punishing them!". Later I saw all the expanations about "military" targets on the TV, and I wish it is true. But many people who were "behind the river" in 79-89 say there are no military installations in Kabul...

Another question: did your media mention the fact that engineering batallion of the 201st motorinfantry division built pontoon bridges across Pianj, and ships weapons to Northern Alliance?

Correction: there are no Russian troops in Uzbekistan. They withdrew from Commonwealth collective security treaty. Border guards and 201st division in Tajikistan are on alert now, the barracks are empty - everyone is ready for action.

I am happy that we all have a chance to fight together. And we must rethink all the double standards and political disagreements.