Author Topic: Airforce Police Officer Shot  (Read 3020 times)

Offline Elfie

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Airforce Police Officer Shot
« Reply #105 on: February 06, 2006, 03:53:27 PM »
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But the media was kind enough to add a "get up" subtitle, so it must be true.


I've seen the vids, and I have seen what appears to be an enhanced version of that video. I've listened to the sound while not watching the video. That officer DOES appear to be saying get up. If the officer didnt say get up, why does someone near the end of that vid tell the officer after the shooting....*You told him to get up!*?

Once the forensics analysis of that video is done we will know for sure what was said.


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Watch it again and again, the MP is basically saying he's a cop, hes cool and he's going to get up... hes trying to take charge, but hes nothing more than an everyday nobody special suspect who has zero say in what goes on.


This falls right into line with what LEO's are implying (some saying outright) over at glocktalk.com in the Cops forum, that MP's arent Police. They are police, they do have law enforcement duties along with security duties.

If you actually listened to the sound in that video you can clearly hear the officer say....get up, get up, suspect says ok, I'm getting up, shots fired.

Most of the LEO's over at glocktalk say that from this vid, it looks real bad for the officer doing the shooting, for numerous reasons.

It only takes ONE bad cop to make a person suspect every cop for the rest of their lives. I have been unfortunate enough to run into several bad cops in my lifetime.

I was pulled over in Seattle one time in the wee hours of the morning by a Washington St. Trooper. For 15 minutes I had a gun pointed at my head while the officer used every curse word in the book at me. I complied with everything he asked me to do, I was polite and courteous until it became painfully obvious that this particular cop was enjoying being a jerk. At that point I told him to either shoot me or put the gun away. Then I told him to either arrest me and charge me with a crime, or to hand me back my registration, military id card and proof of insurance and let me go. This particular cop never even went back to his cruiser to have my license checked.

This particular cop didnt calm down until he saw me write down his badge number and name. He asked me why I was doing that and I told him I was going to file a formal complaint against him for his abusive attitude and language. That officer had no buisiness yelling and screaming at me like he did, nor did he have cause to pull his gun.

He pulled me over for doing 90mph over the Bridge of the Narrows (name?). He admitted to NOT having radar or any other means to clock my speed. Understand this.....the vehicle I was driving was a 68 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup with a 307 V8, 3 speed manual transmission and 4:56 gears in the rear end. At 75mph the engine would start to backfire and was wound up so tight it sounded like it was about to throw a rod. That was after I rebuilt the engine. Before I rebuilt the engine it was so worn that the trucks top speed was 62mph.....unless I was going downhill, then I could get a bit more speed heh. This incident took place about 8 months before the engine overhaul and according to my speedometer I was doing 40mph across that bridge. I understand that my speedometer could have been *off*, but I seriously doubt that it was off by 50mph or by any significant amount since that was the ONLY time I was ever pulled over for *speeding* in that vehicle and I owned that truck for about 5 years.

*edit for spelling*
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 03:58:06 PM by Elfie »
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Offline lasersailor184

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Airforce Police Officer Shot
« Reply #106 on: February 06, 2006, 06:30:28 PM »
I have never once been on the wrong side of the law.


Except for all the underage drinking, but the reason I hate police isn't because of this (though I never did get caught :aok ).
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Offline DmdBT

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« Reply #107 on: February 06, 2006, 07:00:06 PM »
The cop didn't say "Simon says.." , end of discussion.

Offline Colt44

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well...
« Reply #108 on: February 07, 2006, 01:30:39 AM »
Its been an enlightening thread gentlemen.  Its always good to get a different perspective.

I see that some people here have had bad experiences with L.E.O's and I can say I have had my share too.  But, to condem every one as part of a whole and to have that kind of venom against a particular group (any group) because of the actions of a few. . .  well... I just don't get it...... just not in my nature I guess.  

We will have to wait to see what the investigation will bring.  May the verdict be just....whatever it is.  

 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 01:34:16 AM by Colt44 »

Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #109 on: February 07, 2006, 02:47:52 AM »
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Originally posted by Squire
I think there has been a lot of hysterics in the replies to this one, and I will stay out of most of them, but XMarineX, I would like to ask, and im not being a smarta**, I work with cops in my civilian job and I have a lot of respect for them (Canadian and US ones both), but here is my Q:

Regarding a suspect who is "resisting". I understand that the police have to arrest the perp, I mean, he was in a car involved in a chase, so hey, fair game, the guy is arrestable, but, you seem to paint the picture as if just because the perp is "resisting/being non compliant" (if he was) that lethal force is justified. My understanding is that lethal force is only justified to defend either yourself or the public from imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death. Ex. They guy has a weapon, or he is doing something that will cause serious injury to the Deputy (like say running him down with a car, ect).

To shoot simply because he is being uncooperative seems to be a huge jump in force level does it not? Tazer, baton, pepper spray or open hand would be considered appropriate for an unarmed man, in almost all situations like that, I think. To be shot for not being compliant in a pursuit arrest seems a bit heavy handed. Deputy says dont get up, he gets up, and at that point you open fire? Im not sure about that, unless there was something else that raises the threat level which we dont see in the vid.

I will finish by saying, after viewing the vid several times, its too poor quality to really know what happened. The sound is poor, and its dark, and I would wait to see what the investigators come up with. I wasn't there, and Im not pretending that I was.

Regards.


That Deputy holsters his gun and starts swinging a baton, who is going to watch the drivers hands?... and or stop him from turning it into a 2 vs 1 fight, producing a weapon and all that?

Deadly force is always, even for civilians, used to "stop" a threat, you have 2 suspects, unknown if armed, they just ran 100+MPH and you have no idea if they're wanted felons, or just a couple punkass pukes... one of them ignores your order to stay in the car, gets out, starts talking head, youre alone, then the mouthy one says hes getting up.

All your training and experience tells you if he gets up, you now have 2 unknown suspects in position to do you harm... so you use force to stop the one suspect.

It goes way beyond just not being compliant, by doing so the MP put the Deps safety, and his own, at risk. One of the FIRST things my training officer taught me was how to act when pulled over; hands on the wheel, mouth shut, "I'm an off duty 830 my weapon is in the car".... where was mr MPs professionalism?.. it would have kept him from being shot.

And how do you know they were unarmed? the media told you, right?.. was the media there to inform the Deputy of this fact?, no, theres no way the Dep could have known if they were armed or not.

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #110 on: February 07, 2006, 03:12:29 AM »
He fires 3 shots into the BACK of an unarmed man who was attempting to comply with his requests. Whether the cop said 'shut up' or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is that the camera heard 'get up', the witnesses heard 'get up', and the suspect (now victim) heard 'get up'. In fact the suspect barely lifts himself up when the cop unloads at him, its blatantly clear the cop was way premature in his judgement, so far so calling it second guessing is pure BS.

Give it up x0847Marine, you're only looking sillier by the moment trying to justify these actions.

Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #111 on: February 07, 2006, 03:57:15 AM »
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Originally posted by Vulcan
He fires 3 shots into the BACK of an unarmed man who was attempting to comply with his requests. Whether the cop said 'shut up' or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is that the camera heard 'get up', the witnesses heard 'get up', and the suspect (now victim) heard 'get up'. In fact the suspect barely lifts himself up when the cop unloads at him, its blatantly clear the cop was way premature in his judgement, so far so calling it second guessing is pure BS.

Give it up x0847Marine, you're only looking sillier by the moment trying to justify these actions.


Assumptions, at best.... you don't know what the Deputy said and someone who "barely" gets up is more of a risk that you can grasp, esp to a lone cop holding 2 suspects at gunpoint.

Looks to me like a lone deputy trying to control 2 unknown if armed suspects who just tried to flee, one of them was definately COC.... oh well, stuff happens when you decide to endanger a cops life by driving like an a-hole THEN acting like one.

What would you have done? and please articulate how you would have known if they were armed?... turn on ch 5 in your patrol car? or would you just assume the MP was telling the truth, assume neither were armed, assume they were cool and running for no reason, assume if you let mr MP stand you wont get jumped by both... each assumption puts your life at risk.

I'll never forget Lazer village, we has a bunch of Monday AM QB's & media types watch us, then try themselves... lmao, the civilians shot everyone dead, mostly innocents in the line of fire.

One female reporter cold capped the kid armed with a loaded Bomb Pop ice cream, when I started to grill her on "why did you shoot an unarmed kid?? ", she started to cry... I laughed in her face and was called a big meanie.

That experience along with my own shootings drove home the fact that the majority of civilians have no clue about police training or tactics and offer solutions that are absurd.

So please, tell me what you would have done... be sure it complies with Department SBSO policy, POST training and Cali law.

Offline texace

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Airforce Police Officer Shot
« Reply #112 on: February 07, 2006, 07:27:05 AM »
My own amature take on the video after watching it on TV, backing it up, and turning the volume on my surround sound systems WAY up.

The driver was still in the vehicle after the stop had been made. The MP gotten out of the car and went back to talk with the deputy. To explain that he was an MP and the was on the deputy's side. The deputy forced him to the ground and told him not to move. The MP starts saying "I'm on your ****ing side!" While sitting, he leans forward and makes a motion to get up and says "OK, I'm going to get up." This is what the family's attorney said this morning on the Today show.

Now, with the volume up extremely loud (as loud as a movie theater or better), I can hear the deputy saying "Don't get get! Don't get up!" The MP begins to stand and the deputy shoots him.

The caption by the news is "Get up!" but I, as well as my brother, mother, and Scottish friend heard him say "Don't get up!." It's hard to be conclusive because of the quality of the video, but that's what I can hear.

The family's attorney leaves a lot to be desired, though.

Offline Pooh21

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Airforce Police Officer Shot
« Reply #113 on: February 07, 2006, 07:32:48 AM »
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Assumptions, at best.... you don't know what the Deputy said and someone who "barely" gets up is more of a risk that you can grasp, esp to a lone cop holding 2 suspects at gunpoint.


 


I dont know this guy seems to have some stones.

http://www.wimp.com/mexicanarrest/
doesnt even pull the gun until the old guy pulls a shovel
he doesnt even shoot when the geezer goes for the drivers door.

I am sure a few departments have one or two like this guy, who dont go home everynight and fondle SS runes
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Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #114 on: February 07, 2006, 08:10:58 AM »
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Originally posted by texace
Now, with the volume up extremely loud (as loud as a movie theater or better), I can hear the deputy saying "Don't get get! Don't get up!" The MP begins to stand and the deputy shoots him.


I really don't hear the don't. I hear "I'm in the military okay" "okay get up." "I just" "okay get up. get up."
-SW

Offline texace

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Airforce Police Officer Shot
« Reply #115 on: February 07, 2006, 09:13:06 AM »
Goldwin's Law has been invoked! I was wondering how long that would take.

I can only go on what I hear. I can hear the deputy saying "Don't get up" when the MP makes a move to stand. From the speech pattern, it also sounded like the MP said "I'm on your ****ing side, ok? I'm getting up." as one sentence.

Traffic noise make it hard to determine exactly, but it's what I can hear. Remember, they were involved in a high-speed chase and once the car was stopped, the MP got out and approached the deputy to, as the family lawyer said, "inform the deputy that he was a military police officer...that he was on his side."

I'm not pointing fingers or taking sides...just making observations. What we need is the dash cam footage and the recordings from the deputy's microphone, if he had one.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #116 on: February 07, 2006, 09:15:49 AM »
Godwin's law is about comparing something to Nazis. I don't see anyone that did that. I turned up the volume loud enough for everyone in the office to hear it, if he said don't, he whispered it.
-SW

Offline texace

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« Reply #117 on: February 07, 2006, 09:18:51 AM »
The SS rune comparison a few posts up is where I called it. :)

It's not clear, but it's there. There is definatly something said before "get up" and it's certainly not "okay."

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #118 on: February 07, 2006, 09:20:41 AM »
Ah I see it. We'll find out more as this tape will be analysed ad nauseum. I just hope someone posts the outcome so we all know for sure. I'd certainly like to know.
-SW

Offline texace

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« Reply #119 on: February 07, 2006, 09:25:06 AM »
Same on this end. ;)