2006: The year GM loses top spot.

[Choocha]

Kaw1000 you are and others like you are the problem.

I graduated from a major University in the South and got my first job with GM 10.5 years ago.  I was shocked when I moved to Detroit.  Where I was from people were glad to have a good job and worked hard to keep it.  In Detroit and the surrounding areas, there is a strong feeling of entitlement.  “My dad worked here for 30 yrs now its my turn” kind of thinking.  I could tell you stories about the UAW that nobody would believe.  If you wonder why US cars suck just go visit an assembly plant in the Midwest (our best plants are in the South, btw).  The UAW is a criminal organization (strong historic links to organized crime) that runs an extortion racket circa 1930.  Thank God for Japanese cars, now the US consumer doesn’t have to pay for an Out-Law criminal organization.

I loved my years at GM.  The salaried folks I worked with are some of the best and talented people I’ve ever met.  As an engineer we just couldn’t do our jobs.  The UAW made its so difficult at every stage of a program…from tool and die to prototyping and finally production.  We have a saying at General Motors, “The Inmates are Running the Asylum.”  That sums it up.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Choocha
Kaw1000 you are and others like you are the problem.

I graduated from a major University in the South and got my first job with GM 10.5 years ago.  I was shocked when I moved to Detroit.  Where I was from people were glad to have a good job and worked hard to keep it.  In Detroit and the surrounding areas, there is a strong feeling of entitlement.  “My dad worked here for 30 yrs now its my turn” kind of thinking.  I could tell you stories about the UAW that nobody would believe.  If you wonder why US cars suck just go visit an assembly plant in the Midwest (our best plants are in the South, btw).  The UAW is a criminal organization (strong historic links to organized crime) that runs an extortion racket circa 1930.  Thank God for Japanese cars, now the US consumer doesn’t have to pay for an Out-Law criminal organization.

I loved my years at GM.  The salaried folks I worked with are some of the best and talented people I’ve ever met.  As an engineer we just couldn’t do our jobs.  The UAW made its so difficult at every stage of a program…from tool and die to prototyping and finally production.  We have a saying at General Motors, “The Inmates are Running the Asylum.”  That sums it up.

Sounds just like the IAM union that I worked for here in WA state for 14 years...

[Choocha]

I know about your Union Rip, your lucky that you are competing with a sorry socialist state.  if you had to face down the Japanese or Koreans, Boeing would be dead 10 yrs ago.

[phookat]

Originally posted by J_A_B
With people growing tired of SUV's with the associated high CoG and poor handling, perhaps the era of the fullsize car might make a comeback.

Not for me.  Can't do a desert trip with a station wagon.

Well actually you can, if you wanna be stuck in the sand for a couple days.

And the trend crowd likes SUVs not only for the space, but for the "safety" and macho factors, so you're probably not going to convince them either.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Choocha
I know about your Union Rip, your lucky that you are competing with a sorry socialist state.  if you had to face down the Japanese or Koreans, Boeing would be dead 10 yrs ago.

So why the shades account if you know us?

Anyway, Boeing started offloading work to vendors, including global vendors, in the early 90's.  The workforce of the IAM went from 50,000 strong down to its current level which is/was roughly 20,000.  Compared to our counterparts doing the same job outside of Boeing (Machinist, Tool Maker) we were overpaid. It was the downfall of the strong union that Boeing once had.  Sure, the mucky mucks get a big paycheck, but the union chiefs were just as greedy.

[Samiam]

Carmaker!?!?!

GM is just a giant finance corp and mortgage lender. The fact that they still assemble cars as a side business is kind of a lark.

[Thrawn]

Jesus Christ, did I just read the word "peeps"?

[J_A_B]

"With all due respect.....what did you mean by "crappy car thing"..what automaker are u supporting??"


What I mean is most of the newer cars the US makers are building are, to put it simply, crap.    

Does stuff like the Pontiac Aztek ring a bell?  Or, how about how GM has totally wrecked the once-proud Cadillac division into little more than a Lexus-ripoff?  Heck, if not for the Escalade, Cadillac would likely have followed Oldsmobile into oblivion.  That's quite an "accomplishment" of sorts--taking a name that dominated its market for 50 years and running it  into the ground in barely a decade.  It takes incompetence on a monumental scale to acheive those kinds of results!

I support our companies, but not mindlessly so.  I won't waste money on overpriced products that are ugly and unappealing.  If GM and Ford want to run themselves into the ground, then there's nothing I can do about it except remember better times.  

I drive a Buick.  It's ten years old.  I'd love to buy something newer, but the newer cars are just crap.  Practically every new car on the market represents a DOWNGRADE over what I drive now in every attribute that matters to me.  I refuse to buy a foreign model, so I just buy older cars instead.  I'm happy with the Buick, and I saved a heck of a lot of money.


J_A_B

[Choocha]

No hiding here....I'm an old timer just had my account errrrrr....frozen (sorry about that again skuzzy)

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Kaw1000
I dont think people understand that if ford and gm goes down the whole country goes down....I just dont understand why peeps can't get that!
 American autos are one of last big manufacturers..Its really our last stand in the world market!!!

I sincerely doubt that.

[TexMurphy]

Rolex.

Id like to point on two issues that are very troubling for GM and Ford.

1. For GM they have a huuuuge problem with their branding. They are virtually rapeing their brands and destroying the brand lables.

What GM is doing is trying to have everything from entry level to premium level cars for all their brands. Inorder to do this they put cadilac lables on opels, saab lables on subaru´s, daewoo lables on chevies.

Instead of developing the brand and making it into a leading brand within its segment they make all brands into a fuzzy mist in every segment.

This has already totally destroyed SAAB (it has resulted in 1000s of jobs beeing lost in sweden) and more are to come.

2. For Ford the problem is panic savings. Ford is saving like mad. You cant throttle up and hit the breaks at the same time.

Yes for brands that are doing badly you have to cut costs IF COSTS IS THE PROBLEM. If a brand is underdeveloped within its segment you wount make more proffit if you cut costs.

Anyways back to the problem.

Ford is doing soooo badly that actually VOLVO is one of the brands that make the biggest proffit in the entire ford family. Volvo is actually making huge proffits at the moment and its no supprice since its the most technologiacly developed brand in the family.

With Fords panic saving strategy all brands including the very profitable Volvo is forced to save. This means that the brand which is the cutting edge technology brand in the family has very agressive saving plans.

Instead of allowing Volvo to invest Ford is forcing Volvo to save. So that means that its slowing down the technological advance within the family.

I know your saying that Volvo is a insignificantly small part of Ford and it might be but its a brand which has always been leading in safety and enviroment sound cars. These are two values that will only increase in the future. Sure Americans in general dont care about the enviromental effects but atm eviromentally good cars and low cost of ownership are walking hand in hand.

If Ford doesnt stop trying to break and throttle at the same time and GM doesnt stop mollesting their brands their problems will continue.

Tex

[Pei]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
Rolex.

Id like to point on two issues that are very troubling for GM and Ford.

1. For GM they have a huuuuge problem with their branding. They are virtually rapeing their brands and destroying the brand lables.

What GM is doing is trying to have everything from entry level to premium level cars for all their brands. Inorder to do this they put cadilac lables on opels, saab lables on subaru´s, daewoo lables on chevies.

Instead of developing the brand and making it into a leading brand within its segment they make all brands into a fuzzy mist in every segment.

This has already totally destroyed SAAB (it has resulted in 1000s of jobs beeing lost in sweden) and more are to come.

This is a great point: when I was living in the US I never understood why US carmakers made identical cars under different badges. Surely it makes sense to mathc models to brands in a way that emphasizes whatever they think the brand stands for in the minds of the customers.

[Choocha]

TexMurphy,

As a Sweed you understand the sad demise of SAAB...a once proud company known for thier inovative designs....until GM got thier hands on them.  Now they are making WRX's in Japan and sticking a SAAB badge on them.  As a former GM employee (3 months ago I left) I must say sorry.

Also, what American exec's did to Opel...a proud brand (yes GM owned them for a long time) by not investing in diesel technology, then was forced into a bad contract with Fiat to get thier diesel technology, then had to bail them out to the tune of 2 billion...just because some fat bellybutton over paid American exec. in the mid 1980's (Jack Eaton) told Opel engineers "Diesels ...what the hell.  Euro's don't want diesels."

[Dowding]

GM still owns Vauxhall and Opel I believe. The latest round of Vauxhalls are pretty good.

[Rolex]

I agree that diluting a brand does them no good, Tex. Except for some limited brands (all low-end, I believe), neither GM, nor Ford have any global presense other than those acquired. I've always found it mystifying that GM has been so disinterested (I suppose clueless isn't too harsh) about international sales.

Holden, I understand health care was a major swing point in Toyota's decision to build their new factory in Ontario instead of the US, in spite of the huge financial incentives offered in other competing southern states. I live in the most expensive country in the world, yet my health insurance costs about 1/4 of equivalent coverage in the US.