Oil Change Instructions for Women and Men

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
2006 Lexus IS250.  I change mine more often as I do a high percentage of in-town, short distance driving.

And high heat area, considered "extreme" environmental conditions. Glad to see you are taking care of your car, Skuzzy! Should last you 300k or so (if you own it that long)

[Skuzzy]

I keep my cars for 10 years, regardless of the mileage.

[Ripsnort]

I've only owned 3 "new" cars in 30 years of driving, a 1980 F150 that I sold when laid off in '82, a 1991 F150 I owned for 12 years, and my current BMW that I've owned for 5 years.  Looks like my average is 8.5 years.  The rest were beaters. Thats how I saved money to pay cash for my most recent car.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
I keep my cars for 10 years, regardless of the mileage.

so if it breaks down after 3 then you just sit in it and make engine noises while turning the weel?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Nilsen
so if it breaks down after 3 then you just sit in it and make engine noises while turning the weel?

You mean you've never seen a picture of Texas Home landscaping?

[mora]

Originally posted by beet1e
I can see where you're coming from on that, but remember - back in the 1970s, we had cars which required oil changes every 3000 miles. So clearly something has changed - in engine design, oil technology.

The biggest difference is in the oil itself. The modern motor oils have much better detergent qualities, more resistant to oxidisation, the hydrocarbon chains (from which the oil consists of) retains their form better, etc.

Also oil filtering is more developed. Electronic ingnition and fuel injection systems have made the combustion process cleaner, and very little fuel gets in contact with the oil. The fuels itself are cleaner and de facto sulphur free. Even the manufacturing tolerances are smaller and less combustion gases get in contact with the oil. All these issues have an effect on oil change interval and there are probably some facts I missed.

And I'll risk it and say it again... The reason why oil change intervals are smaller in the US is the direct result of the availability of very cheap mineral lowgrade motor oil(according to oil industry people). This evens out to cost difference to longer oilchange intervals in the other  parts of the western world. A typical 18k oil change in Europe including filter would be in the order of $70 to $100 or even more. The situation in the the US obviously favors the "Jiffy Lube" type of busineses. In Europe oil changes are usually made when the car is serviced at a dealership.

[beet1e]

Good post, Mora - very informative.

It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.

This is very different from Europe where, as Mora says, you take your vehicle for service at ONE place - for new cars this is likely to be the vehicle manufacturer's own service facility. There, they will use the electronic plug in job and produce a report from the car telling them what work needs doing.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by beet1e
Good post, Mora - very informative.

It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.

This is very different from Europe where, as Mora says, you take your vehicle for service at ONE place - for new cars this is likely to be the vehicle manufacturer's own service facility. There, they will use the electronic plug in job and produce a report from the car telling them what work needs doing.

Its called a "Dealership" here Beet. The other options you listed are cheaper (in most cases) alternatives. No monopolies like Europe. Capitalism at its best!

Incidently, you can "plug" your car in at any Autozone autoparts store, they diagnose your car for free and tell you what part you need.  Its the only way to go if you're a DIY'er.

[indy007]

Originally posted by beet1e
Good post, Mora - very informative.

It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.

This is very different from Europe where, as Mora says, you take your vehicle for service at ONE place - for new cars this is likely to be the vehicle manufacturer's own service facility. There, they will use the electronic plug in job and produce a report from the car telling them what work needs doing.

Toyotas have service schedules. Minor service every 5k (oil change, filter, check air filter, top off fluids). 15k, 30k, & 60k services are bigger. Brake pads, air filter, spark plugs, type IV ATF on some of the new stuff.. don't have my old cheatsheet anymore so I can't say what the exact differences are. Alot of parts on a car are designed to wear out over a specific period of time. They could be indestructible, but then nobody could afford them.

The reason people go to "jiffy lube" instead of a dealership is the $$ difference for labor hours, and sometimes parts. The jiffy lubes can get the parts for 20-30% off MSRP (from the dealership), and may or may not charge you the difference (usually they do). A dealership will charge you MSRP or matrix 99% of the time (matrix = MSRP + 2-10% to pad the part's managers & retail counterman's checks). That's just parts, the average labor price in most of Houston is $70/hr at dealerships. Shops can and will go $50/hr & less.

Those smaller chains will keep thriving until manufacturers adopt self-tightening, rfid bolts mainstream (already been invented). Then, only an authorized technician will even be able to get the engine cover off.

[lazs2]

mora... what cheap oils are you talking about?   We have the same oil available here as you do.  Are you saying that it is simply sold for a lower price here?   Are you saying that mobil 1 is a cheap oil?

I can buy 5 quart container of mobil one for about $21.

skuzzy... why do you suppose your manufacturer does not want you to use synthetic...  seems synthetic would be ideal for your area and type of driving.

beet... forgot your car was a diesel.... you would have longer times between oil changes...  I would still go with the lower 10,000 mile one tho.  I would imagine that high speed trips on the autobaun would be considered "sporty" driving by them.

lazs

[mora]

Mobil 1(the cheapest one) is $40 here for 4l... But I believe most people in the US don't use synthetic oils like Mobil 1 but very cheap mineral oils like "Valvoline 10W-40 API SG, which have to be changed at 6k miles. I don't know why people insist on an oil change every 3k, there's absolutely no need for that in normal use with any type of motor oil sold these days.

[Skuzzy]

You are speculating mora and I do not have a clue what you base that off of.  My Wife's car uses Mobil 1, and has been using it for the last 150,000 miles.  Your general statement about most people in the U.S. using cheap oil is just wrong.

Name me someone you personally know who uses cheap oil.  I certainly do not know anyone.

One possible reason the service intervals may be shorter could be due to climate.  Like Rip noted, here in Texas we have to deal with temperature ranges from 0F to 120F.  The high temperatures damage oil very quickly.
The driving conditions here in the U.S. is quite a bit different from Europe as well.


Lazs, I asked the service manager about the reasoning behind not using synthetic oils.  He told me it was due to the direct injection fuel system.  Apparently there needs to be another API upgrade to synthetics before Toyota/Lexus is comfortable with synthetics and these particular engines.

[mora]

Originally posted by beet1e
Good post, Mora - very informative.

It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.

One reason why that works  in the US is that there's no mandatory vehicle testing(MOT) you can drive your car until the brakes fail completely and take it to a "brake shop", hopefully not causing an accident on the way there, and when something else fails you take it to another shop. Here you would have to take it to 5 different shops once a year, which would be inpractical.

[mora]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
You are speculating mora and I do not have a clue what you base that off of.  My Wife's car uses Mobil 1, and has been using it for the last 150,000 miles.  Your general statement about most people in the U.S. using cheap oil is just wrong.

I've heard it from several people here and in the US after asking, and I've personally seen the "Jiffy Lubes" advertising the $20 oil changes, and assumed based on what others have told me that's what most people take when they have an oil change. I've also seen a service manual for  US and Euro version of an indentical vehicle(Ford Focus?? can't remember for sure), and the Euro version had twice the oil change interval, and the specified oil was of a much higher grade. There's no other reasonable explanation for it, than having lower oil change interval in favor for using lower grade oils. The climate does not explain it. Compared to Texas, Nordic coutries have larger temperature variations, more humid climate, and below freezing temperatures. Yet the oil change intervals are the same (12k to 18k) as in the rest of the Europe. I've never seen a study which would indicate that those would be too long intervals, and neither did the teacher(D. Sc.) whose lubrication technology course I participated.

Maybe I'm wrong then, I have no problem with anyone using cheap oils. As I've said there's no major price difference, you just need to change it more often, which I consider a disadvantage.

I don't consider myself an expert in this particular field, but I have studied automotive stuff for 7 years and have a B.Sc in automotive engineering, so I  do feel confident about things I've said here.

[Ripsnort]

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