Author Topic: Repub states "A free press undermines our country"  (Read 3020 times)

Offline Nash

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2006, 04:40:17 AM »
Well no...

Not the Columbia shuttle.... as much as that was intended to paint me as some kind of a quack.

Who needs it?

The deficits and the war? Absolutely. That's enough, ain't it?

If not, add:

- the aimless energy policy
- immigration
- outsourcing
- health care
- education
- whatever else that actually matters

...............ignored.


Instead?

Fear, flags, gays, god, guns, abortion, Shiavo, cloning...

No, Holden.... You don't need to make up some kind of Columbia shuttle equivelancy as a response. That's sort of like blaming homeless thugs on Al Queda.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2006, 04:53:51 AM »
What I was taking exception to was your use of the term "solely".

I hold Kerry and Hillary just as responsible for thier votes as I do McCain and Gordon Smith.

I think to blame one party and 'kick the bums out' only to have the other party come in and do the very same things solves nothing.
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Offline Nash

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2006, 05:18:00 AM »
How luscious for you then.

You can blame Iraq on Democrats all you want. You can hold Kerry and Hillary just as responsible as Bush and the Republican cult because of their votes all you want.

That doesn't amount to anything.

Those votes were cast based on the intel that the Republicans told them, and those votes were cast based on an assumption that Bush could successfully manage a war (unlike his former baseball team) competently.

And if you dig deep and break it right down, those votes were cast as a threat.... not an innevitability.

Bush mislead Congress, garnered Congress' approval for threatening a big stick, then suddenly turned around and kicked the inspectors out of Iraq, invaded, screwed up the war, got lotsa good young kids killed, and everyone is left with a huge mess on their hands. So bad that Bush's solution is to leave it up to a future president to solve.

Anyways - I gotta go to bed. I wake up in three hours for a 4 day fishing trip.

I know you'll miss me. :)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2006, 05:39:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Those votes were cast based on the intel that the Republicans told them, and those votes were cast based on an assumption that Bush could successfully manage a war (unlike his former baseball team) competently

And if you dig deep and break it right down, those votes were cast as a threat.... not an innevitability.


Quote
SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--
(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.  


Yes I can see how one could be confused that a vote in favor of a resolution with the above section could be misconstrued as something that authorizes the president to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate...and not only the threat that it is.
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storch

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2006, 06:35:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Oh boy.

Bush goes Boy King bat**** and all of a sudden......

It's the soccer mom's fault. No wait, it's the citizenry's fault. Actually - hold that thought - it's Roosevelt and Johnson's fault!

In fact, it's everyone else's fault but your own, right? Everyone else's fault but the folks like you who got sucked in hook line and sinker and actually voted for this train wreck. That's remarkable! Do you know what kind of odds you're defying?

Remind me to buy you a beer next time I'm in town. You're one in a billion.
well now before you completely melt down......again.  what would collectively being at fault mean to you?  That would be all of us at fault (not you of course, you don't count for much as you are not an American).  we have as nation consistently ceded our rights either through apathy or ignorance with our votes, or a lack thereof.  

In modern times the president who has held the most profound and sweeping powers of intruding into the private lives of the average American was FDR.  the abuses of power by this administration were legion and had a detrimental global effect.  you can place the blame for the cold war, runaway inflation, massive national debt, the massive coachroach infestation of New York/New Jersey and communist infiltration of the highest levels of our government squarely on this three times re-elected demagog.  

now who elected and then three times re-elected this bright star to office and for what reason?  who do we blame?  with regard to President Bush, I have revised my opinion of the president as is my prerogative to do because of his performance during this second term.  having typed that, given the choices in the last two elections, if I could return to 2000 and 2004 knowing what I know now I would still cast my vote for him, seeing him as the lesser of two idiots in both of those elections.  had either of those two seething weezing masses of wasted breath opposition candidates been elected I firmly believe we would be far worse off than we are now.  I'm sure I don't have to ask you what you think, I can guess.

Offline Masherbrum

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2006, 07:15:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
if the executive branch does in fact "take over the government" it will be because the soccer moms have allowed it to happen while their emasculated husbands play "fantasy football".  I don't think it will ever happen so drastically as that. we will lose our freedoms the same way you boil a live frog.  hopefully I'll never live to see it.


A revolution would happen prior to "losing our freedoms".    However, I'm tired of this administration (executive branch) and it's minions (Legislative branch) coming up with every f**king excuse to ATTEMPT to "infringe on our constitutional rights".   The witch hunts need to stop and he now needs to realize he is a moron.   Again, the GOP is worrying about problem 1,000 on the list of 1,000 problems.
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Offline Yeager

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2006, 07:38:44 AM »
Dont sweat it kar, in a short while there will be a totally new moron to take the place of the old one, and a whole new set of minions as well.  Life is good :eek:
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Masherbrum

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2006, 08:00:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Dont sweat it kar, in a short while there will be a totally new moron to take the place of the old one, and a whole new set of minions as well.  Life is good :eek:


Agreed and that is what cracks me up when people dissect things into "the Dems are better than the Reps" and "the Reps are better than the Dems".   They both could give a rat's a** about my existance.

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storch

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2006, 08:32:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Agreed and that is what cracks me up when people dissect things into "the Dems are better than the Reps" and "the Reps are better than the Dems".   They both could give a rat's a** about my existance.

<> Yeager
you must be very young.  who's existence is it to begin with?  who is responsible to learn, adapt, overcome and make their way through your life?  here's a secret for you. we must each make our own way.  the only assitance you may have is to partner up with a good woman and care for each other, beyond that there is no real help.

Offline Goomba

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2006, 08:54:34 AM »
Quote
Wow, it's like teaching infants to walk around here.  You are kidding, right? No? Ok... let's begin...


Well Done, Dos!  Add another name to the list of those unable to hold an adult discussion from differing points of view, and so resort to sarcasm and pedantic, ad hominem insult.  I do so enjoy the schoolyard approach to discourse.

Nash...I realize you are quite passionate about your position, but I'm afraid you don't really get my point.  Perhaps it's my miscommunication.

My arguement is based, in fact, on the inescapable principle that a government NEEDS to have secrets...take a look at the world, for Pete's sake.  It's no more than a silly Utopian dream that any country, any government, can survive without protecting it's interests.  National secrets, classified information, etc... are a critical part of maintaining advantage and security.

Furthermore...I perceive far more support for my position than the contrary...even coming from members of the press themselves.

Again I ask...what are the limits to freedom of the press?  Are there no limits?  Is there to be no accountability?  No consequences too dire to stop some rag from compromising anything it sees fit?

At the very least, the people in government have something that the press does not;  our legislators - good, bad or ugly - were ELECTED...chosen to make decisions and take action on our behalf.  Like it or not, these people have the aegis of the American people to act.  And we retain the right to disapprove of those decisions and toss them out on their ear.

No journalist I know of was ever elected to their position, so why should I trust their judgement?  What reporter or editor has been chosen on the basis of their ability to make decisions about national security?  Where did they get the right to risk compromising same?  I don't know of a single journalist I'd trust to make those decisions...they simply do NOT have the background.

The American people have a right to know...to know when danger looms, when there have been illegal acts, abuses of power, corruption, etc... and none of that exists in this case.  Not a shred.  Just personal indignation at perceived wrongs, and a powerful desire for it to be wrong, so as to further justify one's anger.

There is, in fact, a lot wrong with this administration, and a lot I do not agree with.  However, that's not a blanket justification to villify everything in sight, nor to blame everything you don't like on it.  Furthermore, there has been a lot wrong with every administration I can think of, so I don't expect the song to ever change...only the lyrics.

The fact remains that the idea that our foundational rights are without any limit whatsoever is both mistaken in principle, and disproven in fact.

Robert E. Lee once said something to the effect that all the best generals in the country had apparently been drafted to be newspaper editors, and left only the poorest excuse for military leadership in the field...and that he should really go edit newspapers and let the self-professed experts who judge him from afar go ahead and lead the campaign in the field.  Frankly, when it comes to matters of national security, pursuit of terrorists and criminals, etc...I don't think there is a reporter extant with the qualifications, nor the background, to make these kinds of decisions of their own accord, nor in my name.  Nor did I empower them to do so.

Please let's not reduce this to some simple counterpoint suggesting that I think the government can do as it pleases, and that I'll gladly give up my individual rights and freedoms to "get the bad guys".  In fact, we need to take a considered look at each case, and try to understand that these matters are complex and difficult.  Protecting our rights is critical...as is maintaining and securing the system that recognizes those rights.  Sometimes, these principles can be necessarily at odds, hence, the complexities.

We are faced with threats unlike any before faced by this society, and in a mode with which we are woefully unprepared to deal.  We are in severe danger, we barly understand the psychology and motivations of the enemy, and we've not much historical experience in terrorism and jihad.  

Blanket absolutes do not apply, nor are they realistic, in this case.


(PS...Sorry Rip, I'll try not to let it happen again.;) )

Offline Masherbrum

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2006, 09:09:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
you must be very young.  who's existence is it to begin with?  who is responsible to learn, adapt, overcome and make their way through your life?  here's a secret for you. we must each make our own way.  the only assitance you may have is to partner up with a good woman and care for each other, beyond that there is no real help.


The two-party system doesn't work.  I don't need a lecture on how to "live my life".  I don't cry to the govt. and ask for handouts, etc.   I'm thinking you missed the point up there.   Storch, I'm old enough to know that the Dems are screwed enough to not have an answer to Dubya!   Before the "witch hunt" begins, I vote either Independant or Rep.   Age has nothing to do with it, it's the asanine gullibility of the American Public who vote "I'm voting for the lesser of two evils".    I do find the "age thing" funny though.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 09:17:41 AM by Masherbrum »
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Offline Hap

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2006, 10:16:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goomba
No journalist I know of was ever elected to their position, so why should I trust their judgement?


Winning an election does not create knowledge, rectitude, wisdom, etc.  



hap

Offline Masherbrum

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2006, 10:28:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hap
Winning an election does not create knowledge, rectitude, wisdom, etc.  



hap


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Offline DoctorYO

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2006, 10:39:39 AM »
Boston Globe says this Swift information was the public domain...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/06/28/terrorist_funds_tracking_no_secret_some_say/


or this...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2006/06/28/BL2006062801268.html


or this....


from swift themselves..

http://www.swift.com/index.cfm?item_id=6149

Note #2


Admin is being cornered on many levels...  they are popping smoke and mirrors..    Rule #1 in politics "whats the best defense..."

apply that statement to what your seeing on tv and you might get some understanding of whats going on..



DoctorYo

Offline Hap

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Repub states "A free press undermines our country"
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2006, 10:53:23 AM »
Executive branch breaches of consitutional prerogative will be visited.  I and millions of others over 45, give or take, have seen it.

de casibus virorum illustrorum

hap

p.s.  pretty run of the mill actually given the cruddy state of the human being.  that corrupted human nature has not yet (?) fully ruined the constitutional safeguards is pretty amazing.  Founders knew what they were doing.  Now we get to see if the citizens will help make it possible for the constitution hold up to another challenge.