Idea discussed at the con.

[straffo]

My perspective I see several problems :

Make fields invalid target for bomber (I mean a bomber can't destroy anything on a field) it's a jabo role.

Make town and strat target  rewarding for bombers (provided they are not bombed by 30K or 5K dweebs) and give them back impact on the overall target country.

Make mission system more interresting ,give some reward to the people involved in a successful mission (a simple system message can be enought)

Even if it's not realistic make torpedo the mean of choice to destroy CV (reduce ack efficency on low target)

Forbid the CV to be closer than one sector to an enemy field.

Make ack-ack respawn time and accuracy fonction of the attacker ratio

• If there is 1 attacker/ 1 defender : accuracy is 1, respawn is 1
• If there is 10 attacker/ 1 defender : accuracy is increased by a factor of 10, respawn time is decreased by a factor of  10
  
• If there is 1 attacker/ 10 defender : accuracy is decreased by a factor of 10, respawn time is decreased by a factor of  10
  

Fused bombs !

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by cav58d
Its a waste of time....The complaint isnt with suicide porking...It's with porking in general...If troops or ords get porked, does it really matter whether they are done by a suicide pilot, or by a guy who last 120 seconds afterwards?  NO!  In the end the strat is still down, and someone complains

Actually, the complaint is with suicide bombers. I could care less about strat or porking and I'm the guy that made the suggestion. BTW, it is my understanding that the majority of the work left to do on CT is not coding....but graphics. Here's a clue for you....HT's art sucks worse than his spelling. If it was taking away from CT he wouldn't be thinking about doing it.

[culero]

What jumps out at me on this is that the intended target - suicide bombers - may not care about the consequences this "fix" implements. I mean, why would a griefer care how this affects other people in his/her country (in terms of creating uncertainty regarding object down time)? Do griefers even pay attention to team-related gameplay factors?

culero

[mars01]

Yeah but it does reduce their effectiveness.  That is a good thing.

[culero]

Originally posted by mars01
Yeah but it does reduce their effectiveness.  That is a good thing.

Agreed. But, flip side: it affects members of their own country who are playing "properly" adversely.

What about imposing a perk penalty for ordnance-delivery flights that end in death too soon after the drop? Make it possible for bomber perks to go negative, and limit ordnance to anyone who has less than a positive bomber perk balance? Set a range: 0 to -x = no 1000lb bombs, -x to -y = no 500lb or 1000lb bombs, -y to -z = no 250lb, 500lb, or 1000lb bombs, etc.

This way, suicide griefers soon exhaust their bomber perks and can't get the ordnance they want unless they do some missions "the right way" (but with smaller eggs and/or rockets) and earn some bomber perks back.  

I'm trying to think in ways that penalize *only* those who need to be penalized, and that encourage "acceptable" behavior.

I realize that (as others have stated) many new players gravitate to bombers as they build skills. This approach wouldn't prevent that, but it would encourage them to strive for excellence in the A2M category, rather than be happy with simply "Hey it go BOOM and I pissed somebody off!" By encouraging survival with a penalty system that affects the offending pile-it personally, perhaps we can cause them to willingly act in the way we want them to.

culero

[FiLtH]

I dont like it.   Id prefer just making things harder, but with longer downtimes. Make it so 1 porker can't destroy the hangers. Make it so it takes a few bombers, but if done they stay down 30 minutes.

   Its bad enuff that what we bomb now is back up before we rtb. To add this to it you may as well remove bombers from the menu.

[WMLute]

Put me in w/ the "I don't like it" crowd.  

Might I suggest working on the resupply end?  Make it slightly easier/faster to resupply a field.  Possibly tie FH/VH/BH re-up times to Field Supplies.

Encourage people to hop in a LVT/M3/C47 and resupply.  

Upset someone just porked your ammo?  Grab a M3 and resupply the field.  Easy fix.  Heck I do this already.

(also, the only can bomb while in the bomb site is a great idea.  I also like the concept of bombs not being able to release at certain angles.)

[rabbidrabbit]

1) Making resupply a bit more effective.
2) limiting angles for bomb drops, and no it does not have to be exact for each bomber.
3) allowing bomb release for level bombers to only occur from the bombadiers position are all great ideas.  Each of them is a realistic fix to a gamey problem.


There just are not a lot of folks dropping bombs and delibertly auguring.  There are far more using tiffy's and la7's to gun down troops etc.  This would have no effect on them.  There are some great field designs out there thanks to the scenario team that are far better than the long past stale ones we have seen for the last 3 years plus in the MA that not only look a lot better but would make suicide porking much more challanging.

Trying to game a solution to a gamey problem just escalates into greater gameyness.   Dysfunction + dysfunction = greater dysfunction.  No one is happy and it all sucks worse than where it started.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by WMLute
Put me in w/ the "I don't like it" crowd.  

Might I suggest working on the resupply end?  Make it slightly easier/faster to resupply a field.  Possibly tie FH/VH/BH re-up times to Field Supplies.

Encourage people to hop in a LVT/M3/C47 and resupply.  

Upset someone just porked your ammo?  Grab a M3 and resupply the field.  Easy fix.  Heck I do this already.

(also, the only can bomb while in the bomb site is a great idea.  I also like the concept of bombs not being able to release at certain angles.)

Thats a slightly different problem -

Everyone wants:
The capture points
The vulches
For the all important score/rank.

Re-supplying a field is generally "someone elses job". Takes 5 guys, 1 run to bring a field up, try getting 5 guys to do it.

Want to stop a porker, two ways -
1) High cap over field
2) See one incoming, grab an M16 or Osty and park it by the barrcks. Quite effective, ask the barracks porking Knit 262 I shredded last tour. (and saved the troops).

For the 'true' pork and auger dweeb it only needs at max a 5 sec delay, they follow their eggs right in, anything else penalises guys trying to pork without augering and maybe getting nailed by ack.

[TexMurphy]

I think this is a great idea.

It gets rid of suicide attacks.

It makes level bombing preferable over divebombing in level bombers.

It does not rule out NOE sneak attacks, NOE  with escorts or NOE on suppressed fields.

Though it does hurt the suicidal NOE runs when bomber pilots drive their wing of B17/B24s into a base that isnt suppressed with the single objective of downing a hanger before they go down. These NOE attacks are pure lazyness attacks where the bomber pilot is to lazy to climb. Its not a realisitc NOE and its just a desperat gamey way of quickly hurting the enemy.

Good idea.

Implement it please.
Tex

EDIT: I would guess that the serious bomber and jabo pilots would actually appriciate that HT is trying to stomp on the gamey bombertards. Sure it will bite the serious bomber once in a while if he dies right after his drop. But heck aint it worth it????

[Kev367th]

It totally nerfs NOE, think about it -

Buffs and 110's go for the town.
Jabos normally go for VH then de-ack, then cap the field.

Difference with timer -
VH doesn't go down right away, GVs continue to spawn for 2 mins, some towns are real close to fields.

What if after hitting the VH that guy gets killed within the 2 mins deacking the field, or hit by ack after hitting the VH? Yup the VH doesn't go down at all.

What it will encourage is a lot more buffs/jabos to MAKE sure the target is going to go down.

Whole idea needs a lot more thoguht, timer will just screw up other aspects of the game.

Please stop referring to 'realistic' -
A timer is very unrealistic.
Flaming planes flying around chasing other planes rather than bail is unrealistic
Perfect summer days every day is unrealistic
Planes sitting off a buffs 6 with oil/fuel leaks, pilot wounds, bits missing etc rather than RTB is unrealistic
Loadouts of 75% fuel (or less) + DT's (been commented on lots of times)

'Realism' has nothing to do with it, people invoke the 'realistic' tag when it suits their agenda, and ignore the totally 'unrealistic' features currently in the game.

[Dace]

I'm at 25k in buffs,.. I salvo all my bombs just as a couple of 163s start hitting me. I am ded BEFORE my bombs hit the ground. What now?

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Dace
I'm at 25k in buffs,.. I salvo all my bombs just as a couple of 163s start hitting me. I am ded BEFORE my bombs hit the ground. What now?

Easy one Dace -
If you are dead within the 2 mins, you just wasted your time. Bombs will land, timer will start, if you get killed, your bombs essentially do nothing.

[rabbidrabbit]

The point being you get punished despite not engaging in the issue being addressed.  

Dysfunction + dysfunction = greater dysfunction

might I also add:

4)  No one gets perks unless they land them.  Think about what that will do to suicidal behavior across the boards.

[Simaril]

I gather that HT's thinking most about the time limit, with delayed application of damage. Earlier in thread he also said 30 secs seemed too short a delay.


It occurs to me that at a conservative 240 mph ground speed, an attacker woudl cover 2 miles in 30 seconds, and 8 miles in 2 minutes (his inital thought).

Do we really need to make attackers get that far away from target for damage to count? With a stated goal of preventing suicide attacks -- which to me means very quick deaths after damage -- that much delay seems excessive.

As others have said, 15-30 secs ought to be plenty and woudl be much less disruptive to the flow of the game.