Author Topic: Idea discussed at the con. (Read 10290 times)

Simaril · « **Reply #285 on:** July 10, 2006, 01:22:44 PM »

Blauk,

I think HT's saying that the dive bombing is less of a problem for him, but that he doenst like the effects of the "I dont care if I die" attack in general.

If that attitude is the target, it seems that any solution would need to MAKE those attackers care....hence the revoacable damage.

plink · « **Reply #286 on:** July 10, 2006, 01:24:45 PM »

I don't like the timer idea for strats...

A little hardening or "correct" munitions to kill it makes sense.

How about a timer for death....
You can't up for x minutes instead!
People will be a lot less likely to want to die.

PLINK

red26 · « **Reply #287 on:** July 10, 2006, 01:28:29 PM »

Why not make it closer to real life and once you bust a AH or a VH open that base wont get it back up until they have flown enough supply in to rebild it. No time limmit just like real life supply and demand. Just a thought sir??

~~And I like the(( .fuse ))thing for low bombing runs~~

Kev367th · « **Reply #288 on:** July 10, 2006, 01:33:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
Blauk,

I think HT's saying that the dive bombing is less of a problem for him, but that he doenst like the effects of the "I dont care if I die" attack in general.

If that attitude is the target, it seems that any solution would need to MAKE those attackers care....hence the revoacable damage.

The "I don't care if I die" is part of the game, you can't change it, there is no penalty for any death apart from your stats.

Few examples -
Who in their right mind if they could really die would dive into a mass of red capping a base.
Who in their right mind if they could really die would continue to fly a burning plane.
Who in their right mind if they could really die would sit on a cons 6 with a hoard on his tail.
Who in their right mind if they could really die would do the classic deathstar on the way down rather than bail.
Who in their right mind if they could really die would charge a Tiger with a Jeep.

Sorry the "I dont care if I die" argument doesn't hold up when it is so prevalent in all other aspects of the game.

If your going to hold one particular aspect of game to the "You should care if you die" rationalisation, then it follows ALL aspects of the game should be subject to the same criteria.

FiLtH · « **Reply #289 on:** July 10, 2006, 01:40:39 PM »

Red it would be cool but not many would like that job. Leaving the arena up to the players without any guidelines or resupply probably wouldnt work too well.

Simaril · « **Reply #290 on:** July 10, 2006, 01:51:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
...snip....

Sorry the "I dont care if I die" argument doesn't hold up when it is so prevalent in all other aspects of the game.

If your going to hold one particular aspect of game to the "You should care if you die" rationalisation, then it follows ALL aspects of the game should be subject to the same criteria.

Not really - because all your listed examples affect ONLY the guy who died, where base and strat affects MANY more players.

The ability to control other players SHOULD be more tightly regulated, no?

Otherwise, I guess I'd say that HT is a professional game designer, and is far more able to gauge play balance than we are. There's your side of the issue, there's my side -- but in the end the only one who sees the entire game (including the behind the scenes data) is HT. Since the "proof is in the pudding", and since AH2 is THE prime MMO flight sim, I'd tend to trust his judgement here.

As for us, well we're human and we balk at having to change. We'll adapt well enough. We're smart enough as a group to come up with solutions, after all.

Kev367th · « **Reply #291 on:** July 10, 2006, 01:57:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
Not really - because all your listed examples affect ONLY the guy who died, where base and strat affects MANY more players.

The ability to control other players SHOULD be more tightly regulated, no?

Otherwise, I guess I'd say that HT is a professional game designer, and is far more able to gauge play balance than we are. There's your side of the issue, there's my side -- but in the end the only one who sees the entire game (including the behind the scenes data) is HT. Since the "proof is in the pudding", and since AH2 is THE prime MMO flight sim, I'd tend to trust his judgement here.

As for us, well we're human and we balk at having to change. We'll adapt well enough. We're smart enough as a group to come up with solutions, after all.

Think I'll wait and see what HT decides to implement, it's a given it is coming in one form or another, then maybe we can all have a more informed discussion.
Too many ifs, whats, buts at the moment.

Look forward to another civilised discussion on it once it rears its head in-game, until then see yas in the very unfriendly skies.

[edit] Editted two corect speeling misteaks

.

mensa180 · « **Reply #292 on:** July 10, 2006, 02:08:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Strykar1

So they end up dropping the bombs make a great run only to have been shot down right right away or even soon after and make all that time spent in the air Not worth a single thing??

I dont mind dieing not in the least. I dont mind cutting infront of a enemy who I know will most likely defeat me just so a fellow Bish may have that chance to fullfill his mission or even make his way back to base. but to spend all that time on a strategic bombing run and make a successful attack but not then all of a sudden I find out it was all for nothing because I was shot down within seconds... Minutes of my bombs dropping?? I really dont like that side of it.

Bingo

Tilt · « **Reply #293 on:** July 10, 2006, 03:21:44 PM »

I think the smoking building does add some stuff that is interesting...........

as I see a working model...........

If the timer runs at the point of adding damage (not point of threshold destruction) on goobers FE

Then

if goober stays alive for longer than the timer then the damage becomes "hard"................

if goober dies before the timer runs out then the damage is "repaired"

during the period that the destruction threshold is reached and various FE timers are still running then the object smokes...............during smoking it is incapacitated................ .......

if the timers run out to bring the total "hard" damage over threshold then the object is destoyed (explodes etc) and the normal repair and rebuild model kicks in.

if not then it simply stops smoking and is re activated with what ever level of "hard" damage is current.....................

This way

players get feedback (both sides) and can react..............

the mod effects all suicide hits and not just those that incurr "threshold damage"

Even the potential suicider has contributed (all but very briefly) to incapacitating the object but his effectiveness is brief all the same if he dies before the timer runs out.

Mister Fork · « **Reply #294 on:** July 10, 2006, 03:23:55 PM »

Having played a lot of online games, I think the idea of reversing someones bombing/strafing/rocket attack because they die 2 minute later somewhat questionable: Hitech - what do you hope to accomplish with this feature?

I'm sure it will stop some of the kamikaze silliness we see.

Perhaps 30 seconds is more realistic?

30 seconds is a long time to survive a suicide run.

sullie363 · « **Reply #295 on:** July 10, 2006, 03:38:52 PM »

I greatly dislike the whole idea and resist this proposal to fix player behavior. This type of stuff would be more suited to TOD. I think the MA should be allowed a considerable level to shape itself.

Midnight · « **Reply #296 on:** July 10, 2006, 04:10:46 PM »

How would this work with bomber formations? If one of the bombs from your drone did the final hit, and then the drone was killed before the expire time, does that count?

Players that fly Bombers the intended way would be penalized, as many times, the fighters attack when the bomber pilot is in the sight trying to do a real bomb run. It's easy to tell when they have no gunner and go auto-pilot to calibrate and drop.

If the timer is 10 seconds, 1 minute or 2 minutes, it won't matter all that much to the pork and auger crowd anyway, all they will do is just modify their behavior to stay alive just long enough to keep their damage done, then auger or bail.

Someone else suggested to make the player use perk points to buy the bombs.

How about, if the player loads bombs, they do not cost anything until they actually get dropped (No loosing perks if vultched or shot down en-route) Once the bombs are dropped, they cost perk points. If the player then gets home to land, all bombs that hit a target get 2x the amount of perks earned for what they cost (I.e. if bomb cost 2 perks, and bomb hit target, and player lands, player recieves 4 perks.) If the bomb missed target, but player lands, 1/2 perks earned back. If bomb hits and player dies, 1/2 perk earned back, if bomb missed and player dies, no perks.)

Midnight · « **Reply #297 on:** July 10, 2006, 04:18:25 PM »

Actually, thinking of this one, it could make level bombing from higher altitudes even less desired.

If a bomber is at 20K and drops, the bomber could be killed before the bombs even reach the ground... what then? the bombs are negated all together?

red26 · « **Reply #298 on:** July 10, 2006, 04:50:07 PM »

Ok if not that way then have it to were you have to at least fly 3 runs to it or give it like 5 min, till it reups. Then if your bombing it if you hit it you take it out no time limit .

And can we get the .Delay Fuse thing for low level bombing?? That would be great

KTM520guy · « **Reply #299 on:** July 10, 2006, 05:01:04 PM »

I think the only solution here is more/stronger ack with all positions having an option to be manned. Any sort of timer system will be the worst thing since sliced bread. It will indeed curb the tide of suicide pork dweebs but will punish those who enjoy the base capture aspect of the game.

I salute HiTech for allowing us to fight over this issue. If I ever get to meet you in person, The first round is on me