Author Topic: israel in war  (Read 5931 times)

Offline Stang

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israel in war
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2006, 03:18:46 PM »
What makes it worse is that they intentionally place their targets inside civilian centers so any attack unfortunately causes loss of innocent life.  This has been a tactic for decades, and is coldly calculated for maximum impact on world opinion if Israel decides to strike against the Palestinians, Lebanese or anyone else.  

It's sick, they put their own innocents in peril just to make Israel look bad on the international stage.  And it looks like everyone's falling for it once again.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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israel in war
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2006, 04:29:37 PM »
Actually, it is possible that Hexbollah's tactics and policies may be back firing on them. It seems that many of the civilians who are paying the price for Hezbollah's actions are unhappy about it, and they're blaming the government for allowing Hezbollah to operate, and Hezbollah for pissing off Israel.

Seems nailing the infrastructure might work like punishing the whole platoon for what a couple of guys did. Sometimes the platoon gets pissed off and holds a little blanket party for the troublemaker(S). Usually works pretty well from what I'm told.


Nilsen, much like the "Palestinians", by electing either PLO/PLA or Hamas to represent them make themselves responsible for the actions of their elected representatives, those who elect the governments in Lebanon and Syria must take responsibility for the actions of the terrorists groups the elected governments allow to operate. Perhaps when the general population finally gets sick of being smacked around and living in squalor because some salamander with a Hezbollah/Hamas headband goes and makes an bellybutton of himself they'll get pissed off and deal with the salamanders. It seems some of the civilians are reaching that point now, and they're not blaming Israel, they're blaming the salamanders doing the kidnapping and other terrorist acts. We can only hope. And encourage them.
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Offline bozon

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israel in war
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2006, 04:36:00 PM »
I'll try to correct a few things and answer a few all at once:

Terrorism -
This is NOT a fight against terrorism. This is a despute between two countries because one is hosting a private army attacking the other. Israel doesn't care about Hizballa and doesn't need it destroyed or kill its leaders. All Israel demands is that Lebanon keep its border and prevent attacks comming from its territory.

The kidnapped soldiers -
This is NOT about getting the soldiers back, although it is part of the problem. It is about Hizballa setting up attacks every 2-3 months. I don't care if they only attack military targets (not always) this is still an attack on Israeli land across an international border. Any other country would also consider it an act of war. Lebanon is responsible to attacks comming from its land.

Un-proportional response -
Israel has been playing Hizballa's game for almost 6 years. They perform a "small" attack every 2-3 months, Israel retaliates by firing a little at Hizballa positions in S. Lebanon and wait for the next round. That is what "proportional response" means. The Lebanon goverment sits on its ass, in Beirut tourists are sun tanning and in N. Israel tourists run away.

This cycle had to be broken. No country will absorb attack after attack and keep quiet for ever. It can't be that Lebanon does not care what Hizballa is doing along its south border. After Hizballa started rocketing the northern settlements Israel decided to break the cycle and attacked back in force. This time Israel decided to claim the price from the landlord itself. If in Israel tourism is shut down, so will the tourism in Lebanon. If Israeli cities are attacked so will Beirut. Note that only the Hizballa area of the city was attacked after the civilians were warned of the attack by dropping fliers. Hizballa doesn't let us know where he's shotting its rockets.

Lebanonese should remember Niven Laws:
1. Never throw mud at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to a man who throws mud at an armed man.

I hear Lebanon has declared it will deploy its army in the south for a cease fire. I hope this ends soon (if only they did it 6 years earlier)

Bozon
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Offline ghi

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israel in war
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2006, 04:41:05 PM »
verry impresive,The Bekaa Valley war  ,in 1982 ,JAF shoot down 83 syrian MIGs 21/23 and lost zero, was the largest airbattle in the modern jets history, i don't know if Syria would do better now
« Last Edit: July 15, 2006, 04:46:24 PM by ghi »

Offline Elfie

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israel in war
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2006, 05:13:49 PM »
Quote
Actually, it is possible that Hexbollah's tactics and policies may be back firing on them. It seems that many of the civilians who are paying the price for Hezbollah's actions are unhappy about it, and they're blaming the government for allowing Hezbollah to operate, and Hezbollah for pissing off Israel.


I saw something on the news where Arab nations were holding a conference and were ticked at Hezbollah. I didnt catch the whole segement, just the tail end. So it seems that not just the innocent civilians are getting ticked, it seems that the Arab world in general is getting ticked at Hezbollah, Hamas.


Bozon, I think this is at least, in part, a fight against terrorists. Doesnt Hezbollah fire rockets into Israeli cities from time to time in attacks that can be considered terror attacks? Isnt Hezbollah at least in part, a terrorist organization?

Regardless of the *details*, these attacks do indeed need to be stopped. Israel is a sovereign (sp?) nation who's borders have been repeatedly violated.
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Offline Elfie

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israel in war
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2006, 05:38:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
verry impresive,The Bekaa Valley war  ,in 1982 ,JAF shoot down 83 syrian MIGs 21/23 and lost zero, was the largest airbattle in the modern jets history, i don't know if Syria would do better now


Thanks for that link Ghi. I have never read a detailed account of the air battles over the Bekaa Valley before. Very interesting imo.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline cpxxx

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israel in war
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2006, 08:18:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie

Due to political pressures I dont believe the US actually sent any military equipment to Israel while the Yom Kippur war was going on. The Yom Kippur War only lasted about 30 days, most of the Israeli tank losses were in the initial stages of the war. By the end of the war the majority of those tanks had been repaired and sent back into combat.


That is not in fact true, the US sent F4's during the Yom Kippur directly from USAF stocks. They were fairly obvious as they were seen flying in the current US camouflage colours. I would guess that F4's were not the only materiel sent.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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israel in war
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2006, 08:28:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
That is not in fact true, the US sent F4's during the Yom Kippur directly from USAF stocks. They were fairly obvious as they were seen flying in the current US camouflage colours. I would guess that F4's were not the only materiel sent.


Israel could have contracted to buy those planes and paid for them in advance of the war.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Elfie

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israel in war
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2006, 08:35:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
That is not in fact true, the US sent F4's during the Yom Kippur directly from USAF stocks. They were fairly obvious as they were seen flying in the current US camouflage colours. I would guess that F4's were not the only materiel sent.


Both the Soviet Union and the USA were under political pressure to NOT supply either side with war material. My memory of the books I read could be incorrect as to whether or not Israel or it's Arab opponents actually recieved any replacements or not. It has been a number of years since I read those books.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline bozon

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israel in war
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2006, 11:55:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
That is not in fact true, the US sent F4's during the Yom Kippur directly from USAF stocks.

Israel had F4s and A4s since 1970. Major consideration in arming Israel was that the Soviets were arming Egypt and Syria and the US considered it as part of the anti-soviet effort. Soviets even sent a squadron of pilots in 1970, but they left after loosing 5-0 in a big furball (20 mig 21, 4 F4s and 8 Mirages were involved).

The US did send quite a lot of arms during the war, mostly surplus from Vietnam. Actually, the first M16 I got has served in Vietnam (and that was in 93). By the time the shipments arrived the war has already turned, but it did give Israel some more breath.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Nilsen

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israel in war
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2006, 02:12:51 AM »
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Originally posted by AWMac
Nilsen


You must adopt me soon before you open that bottle.... Did I mention that MY daughters name is Mia?  Well Michelle, but she goes by Mia... she 24, stunningly attractive....

Don't open the bottle yet.

I can fax adoption papers and be on a jet in 1 hour.


Mac

Always wanted to see Norwie, Norweign.. watermelon Finnland.


sure.. ship the papers old mate ill fix that in a sec...

p.s. if you are trying to set me up with your daughter or use her as a ticket to get here then please send photos and other vital info. thank you








;)

Offline FiLtH

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israel in war
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2006, 02:43:09 AM »
Lebanon has an economy?  Manufacturing broken hearts and rubble?

~AoM~

Offline Nash

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israel in war
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2006, 03:33:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
Manufacturing broken hearts and rubble?


Nice....

Offline weaselsan

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israel in war
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2006, 10:39:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Both Lebanon and Israel has a right to defend themselves.

Neither of them gets a thumbs-up from me.

Hizbolla started, but Israel responded way to harsh.


So Nilsen if terrorists on your borders claimed you did not have the right to exist, and repeatedly launched attacks against your people you would "What" smack them on their little pinkies?

Offline Monk

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israel in war
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2006, 11:24:38 AM »
Considering Hizbollah holds 23 from the 128 seats in the Lebanese govt. Israel has every right to attack Lebanon.