Author Topic: Pistol vs. Revolver? (Read 2199 times)

Dago · « **Reply #45 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:59:57 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2

Dago... in the 70's the average gunfight lasted 1.7 rounds according to the DOJ and police studies. Most police and bad guys were equipped with revolvers... nowdays... the average is up to around 9 rounds and the results are about the same.

Back in the 70s the average criminal used revolvers too.

Quote

I grew up with revolvers and handguns and have allways been aware that the number of rounds was finite. I was allways amazed at the guys who would empty their guns at a running ground squirrel or jack while I took one or two shots that seemed worth taking.

[/b]

Bet while you were playing "cool hand luke" with your revolver, the squirrel never was shooting back.

Quote

it was also fun to watch the guys with 45 autos and 9 mm try to hit anything at any distance... at 200-300 yards they couldn't even use the sights.... had to pretend they were artillery.

[/b]

The smarter shooter has a thing for those ranges, it's called "a rifle". Handguns are a short range weapon.

Quote

I have been shot at.... I did not see any reason to empty my gun into the air.

[/b]

Hard to empty your gun when you are hiding in a hole shivering.

Quote

I like my semi autos but like my revolvers more. Perhaps it is a throwback from when autos were even less reliable but... I trust my revolvers.

At the police range is a city mail box that is used as "cover" there are many 45 and 9 mm and .40 dents in it and some 223 through and through drill bit like holes.. There are also some 44 mag holes in one side and gaping 3/4" inch exit holes out the other side. The difference is amazing.

I would carry the revolver if things were serious with man or beast.

lazs

I never had a mail box shoot at me, so I never shot one myself. Pretty sure I could put some holes in it with a auto. Personally I am pretty sure a .45 fmj would penetrate it.

But, as you mentioned, it is all about personal choice. Each have advantages and disadvantages, but for me the auto is the choice.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #46 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:06:22 PM »

I like lots of fire and smoke. If there’s one gun I regret selling it was my old POS 45 muzzle loader. As a means of defense it did make a nice big cloud to hide behind.

Maverick · « **Reply #47 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:12:52 PM »

I have both revolvers and autos. I like them both and they have their attributes and detractions, each of them.

There are 3 that I have depended on and have confidence in. In no particular order;

S&W 66 four inch
S&W 66 2.75 inch round butt
Glock 19 with finger extended mag

I have others I like to shoot but I carried the above for several years each and know them very well. All of them will get the job done.

I have more than one colt .45 and they are ok. The ones I like to shoot are the stainless Officers model I carried off duty for a couple years until I got my Glock 19. The other is a 70 series Mk4 that was set up with S&W sights for old school combat competition. This was before "race guns" were common and the cometition got "gamey".

Once I got the Glock I put away the colts for competition. I figured it was better to compete with the same thing I carried everyday, including the belt and holster. Since it was the smaller Glock (same size as my Officers Model) I carried it off duty as well.

I like Glocks, they work well for me but so go the S&W, colt, Ruger and the Dan Wesson .22 I have. All handguns are a matter of personal choice and whatever works for you is the best choice for you.

There is no "real man" concept to it, that's for those who only have an inkling of what a "real man" is about from reading books or watching TV.

lazs2 · « **Reply #48 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:40:59 PM »

dago... you did a great job of missing the point in every single case.

The point was that if you train people to fire a lot of rounds and reload they will... they won't be any more effective they will just let loose a lot of dangerous lead into the air.

The point of the mailbox is that you are safe behind one if the guys shooting at you are shooting semi autos... if the guy has a revolver you are just.... well.. dead.

and "shivering in a hole"? don't know about that but I would be interested in hearing your stories about how a semi auto made you braver and better than a revolver would have. Maybe a story about how letting 12 rounds loose in a few seconds made things better?

As for the critters... the point is that some people just like to shoot as fast as they can... no matter what and have no idea of what they have left. revolver, auto... they will be just as useless with either... and just as empty.

A revolver is not the best tool for long range but.. a good 44 will put all its rounds into a man sized target at 200 or more yards. I would not feel that unarmed with one. I seen guys who couldn't do that well with rifles.... good revolver shots can hit stuff out to 400 yards or more.

even at arms length shooting... I would rather put one .357 into the bad guy and save the other five "just in case" than to do like all the new gunfighters (most of whom have never been in a gunfight) and spray an entire clip of .40's or .45's at anything that moves.

So far.. the only thing I have seen that semi autos are better at is....

games... and then... only if the game is designed for semi autos.

The fastest gun from holster to first shot is still the single action revolver...

some old cowboy would beat the best semi auto to the first shot every time..

No semi auto has enough power or range for hunting in any humane way..

That is not to say the single action revolver is the only choice... it just shows that those who buy into the semi auto is the only firearm idea are pretty narrow minded.

lazs

lukster · « **Reply #49 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:47:36 PM »

I can't explain it but I am a lot more accurate with a 4" S&W .357 revolver than with a semi-auto and I practice with semi's more.

lazs2 · « **Reply #50 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:48:02 PM »

and as for never firing at a mailbox dago because it never shot at you? LOL... I really do believe that you think a 45 FMJ would penetrate it... you would be wrong of course but..... that is to be expected since you really don't know the capabilities of your firearms. that is obvious

you may never have one shooting at you but you might want to hide behing one some day.

I spent a lot of time and rounds shooting at all sorts of targets... I pretty much know what to expect from all sorts of calibers when I hit something..

From plinking at all sorts of stuff we learned that if you want to do some damage.... hit it with a 44 or .357 mag...

I now take the 44 and the Kimber 45 when I go out plinking... at short range the Kimber is a great gun except that it is a slob and throws brass everywhere... loses a lot of em. dents some. 44 is a lot more fun... when the ranges get farther... it is mandatory.

lazs

Dago · « **Reply #51 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:50:18 PM »

I just love winding you up on this stuff lazs, we have been through it before.

And the M1A is still a much better rifle than the M1 Garand.

lazs2 · « **Reply #52 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:58:20 PM »

thank you for giving me a chance to voice my views.

lazs

Dago · « **Reply #53 on:** September 02, 2006, 01:07:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
thank you for giving me a chance to voice my views.

lazs

Well, you are quite welcome of course.

Yeah, I don't know much about my .45 and it's capabilities. I have only put a little in excess of probably about 8000 rounds through it so far in the 34 years I have been firing it at anything I legally could.

Had to replace all the springs, replace the front sight so far.

lazs2 · « **Reply #54 on:** September 02, 2006, 01:50:42 PM »

I reload... I have one 44 mag revolver with an excess of 50,000 rounds through it.. the transfer bar shattered from metal fatigue at 30,000 rounds...

If you have ever done any shooting out plinking with guys that have .357 revolvers you will see what I mean. The .357 is much more nasty at hitting hard and penetrating than the .45 and the 44 mag is a big step up from the .357

For pure fun out plinking.... the 44 and .357 are king.. They are more powerful and can shoot a wide variety of ammo and they don't leave brass all over the place.

semi autos are fine for people who don't care about littering and don't reload.

They are great for "formal" shooting at paper targets at 25 yards or less or for any of a number of "games" that you can play with em at even shorter ranges that are supposed to somehow simulate combat conditions.

lazs

Dago · « **Reply #55 on:** September 02, 2006, 02:33:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I reload... I have one 44 mag revolver with an excess of 50,000 rounds through it.. the transfer bar shattered from metal fatigue at 30,000 rounds...

If you have ever done any shooting out plinking with guys that have .357 revolvers you will see what I mean. The .357 is much more nasty at hitting hard and penetrating than the .45 and the 44 mag is a big step up from the .357

For pure fun out plinking.... the 44 and .357 are king.. They are more powerful and can shoot a wide variety of ammo and they don't leave brass all over the place.

semi autos are fine for people who don't care about littering and don't reload.

They are great for "formal" shooting at paper targets at 25 yards or less or for any of a number of "games" that you can play with em at even shorter ranges that are supposed to somehow simulate combat conditions.

lazs

Geez lazs, what planet are you on?

I never said the .357 is not a strong round. Stop reading things that aren't there, like on the bullet discussion. I am just pretty darn sure a .45 will go through a mail box.

The .44 is fun to shoot, at least in the Desert Eagle, at least in my experience, but the recoil is too brutal in a revolver for 99% of shooters to enjoy shooting it. That is a reality, despite your determination to say otherwise.

The most fun plinker really is a .22 semi-auto.

And no, I dont reload brass cartridges of any type. I reload shotgun shells. Am doing some today. I do have a bunch of boxes full of spent .45 casings though.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #56 on:** September 02, 2006, 03:32:36 PM »

Quote

ripley... I didn't think you guys had nuke weapons. Ya gonna bring em over by boat?

Bring em where? I told I carry one on my person. Are you in need of another conspiracy scheme by any chance?

I'll allow myself to laugh a bit at your expense.

Hawklore · « **Reply #57 on:** September 02, 2006, 03:40:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I own 3 of them now. Original holsters, lanyards, cleaning rods, etc. Ammo is the biggest problem. The original Russian stuff is almost impossible to find now, and the Fiocci ammo isnt reloadable. The brass splits after just one or two firings. Bertram is the only place I can find that still makes brass for it, and its like a dollar each. Ouch. Wolf is supposed to start making the 7.62x38R Nagant ammo this year, waiting to see what its like.

That means most of us that shoot Nagants have to use .32's of some flavor. The .32-20 works well, but factory ammo is too long. Can only use handloads with a reduced OAL. Using .32 S&W Longs or .32 H&R magnums works ok, but the cartridge is a bit loose in the cylinder, and the brass expands something awful, making extraction a bit difficult. They are a challenge, and alot of fun though.

What dates you got?

I just picked up some Fiocci ammo, reloading isn't my thing, and I wanted to see how it shot.

Still havn't gotten to the range to live fire my nagant revolver

.

My next trip to the range will consist of this ammunition being used.

7.62x54

7.62x38

7.62x25

And if I figure out what my czech mauser is chamberd for... It shoots 8mm blanks fine, but I gotta double check it's bore.

x0847Marine · « **Reply #58 on:** September 02, 2006, 03:43:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
Awww heck, lazs just likes a revolver cause it makes him feel like John Wayne and Billy the Kid at the same time.

Lazs, you stated "

I have never been in a close up life or death handgun battle, but I suspect like the vast overwhelming majority, I would have the tendancy to loose off a bunch of ammo.

A real live shoot em gun fight is nothing like standing still wearing ear plugs and shooting at things that don't shoot back. People who "know how to shoot", at the range, might not do so well under life or death decision stress.. dumping ammo at police shootings is common, even trained professionals react adversely to the sudden onset of stress... that hits harder than a truck and can actually make you think so fast, life appears in slow motion.

Being a good shot does not come with the intestinal fortitude needed to think clear enough to save your life, if freaking out and capping 30 rounds at some fool saves your life, that's just as good as calmly putting 2 in the chest & 1 to the head while sipping a late'.

Dago · « **Reply #59 on:** September 02, 2006, 04:05:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by x0847Marine
A real live shoot em gun fight is nothing like standing still wearing ear plugs and shooting at things that don't shoot back. People who "know how to shoot", at the range, might not do so well under life or death decision stress.. dumping ammo at police shootings is common, even trained professionals react adversely to the sudden onset of stress... that hits harder than a truck and can actually make you think so fast, life appears in slow motion.

Being a good shot does not come with the intestinal fortitude needed to think clear enough to save your life, if freaking out and capping 30 rounds at some fool saves your life, that's just as good as calmly putting 2 in the chest & 1 to the head while sipping a late'.

Pretty much what I expect, and was getting at. I can shoot just fine at the range, but if someone is popping rounds at my purty face, I have to suspect the normal reaction would be to dump some serious lead in their general direction, hoping at least to throw their aim off. I would love to believe I would be some cool-ass dude taking careful aim, but unless someone is really in that position for real, there is probably no way to know.

I have seen on tv the dash cams of cops who got shot at, and I saw a tendancy to empty the weapon rapidly in return without stopping to draw a perfect bead on the bad guy. We all know cops get training, practice, and should be proficient, but real world shootouts gotta be a lot differant.