iran fighter

[babek-]

Originally posted by Edbert1
IIRC (I'm sure many here know the exact details)...

A pair of F22s went up against a group (12?) of F15s in a mock combat. Final score was 12 to 0. That was against some of the USAF's finest, no doubt whatsoever more capable than the best Iranian pilots, who, if they were trained by the US would have to be over 55 years old today.

Iranian Air Force's best bet with their new fighter should a conflict arise between them and the USAF/USN would be to run to Syria, kind of like Sadaam did with his air force in 1991, assuming they could get that far without flying over Iraq.

Yeah - thats cool. F22 or some X-wing-fighters hunting the air force of the dark side and forcing them to flee to their greatest enemies - the arabs.

When you turn off the SciFi-Channel and rejoin reality you should ask yourself what will happen - for example - in Iraq?

The shi.ites are the majority of the iraqi people. In both elections they voted like their religious leader ordered them to do. They joined the new military and police of iraq while they are under attack of suicide bombers of sunnite Al Kaida terrorists.
The leader whom orders they obey is Grandajatollah Sistani. An iranian.
So there is a risk that in case of an attack against Iran he will decide to act also in this conflict.

And thats only the question of possible political consequences in one country. The situation is far more complicated and some superduperplanes will not be able to solve the conflict.

[babek-]

Originally posted by lukster
According to this it appears that there is an active, but perhaps somewhat covert, effort to eliminate at least the christian faith.

http://www.jubileecampaign.co.uk/world/ira1.htm

Then one question:

Not about christians but about jews:

If the iranians are trying to eliminate other religions who are defined by their constitution as "believers" so why there are so many synagoges (i hope its the right word - i mean the jewish churches) in Teheran? And why new are being build there when Iran is a second Nazi Empire?

Or another thing:

The christian bishops in iran demanded from the Islamic regime that the film "Da Vinci Code" will be forbidden in Iran. reason: The film tells that the holy man Jesus has a relation ship with the prostitute Maria or something like that.
And the government followed this demand of the christian leaders and ordered that the film is forbidden in Iran.

Also a strange behavior if they want to harm the iranian christians.

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by babek-
Yeah - thats cool. F22 or some X-wing-fighters hunting the air force of the dark side and forcing them to flee to their greatest enemies - the arabs.

When you turn off the SciFi-Channel and rejoin reality you should ask yourself what will happen - for example - in Iraq?

The shi.ites are the majority of the iraqi people. In both elections they voted like their religious leader ordered them to do. They joined the new military and police of iraq while they are under attack of suicide bombers of sunnite Al Kaida terrorists.
The leader whom orders they obey is Grandajatollah Sistani. An iranian.
So there is a risk that in case of an attack against Iran he will decide to act also in this conflict.

Okay, so the Iraqi arabs are the "greatest enemey" of the Iranians yet the Iraqis take their orders from the Iranians. Yet you say I'm the one that has been watching too much Sci-fi. Thanks for clearing that up:rolleyes:

All I am saying is that if a conflict arises between the Iranian Air Force and the USAF/USN the Iranian Air Force will be nothing more than smoking craters within a day, unless they flee. Period. I am not talking politics or long term counterinsurgency or police-actions here. The US military has proven to be incapable of carrying those types of actions out, mostly due to political leadership (or lack thereof), for over 50 years. I am talking about a conflict between air  forces here, it might not even last a day.

[lukster]

Originally posted by babek-
Also a strange behavior if they want to harm the iranian christians.

The article I linked does not imply that the average christian is being persecuted as in a bodily threat but rather that the christian church is being smothered out of existence. The only physical imprisonments listed were of chruch leaders.

The only reference given that an official execution was carried out for apostacy was in 1989. Perhaps it is no longer being carried out in an official capacity. As I already mentioned, the direct persecution listed has been only against church leaders. I would take that as evidence that the Islamic leaders are not secure enough in their positions to enforce Islamic law as I believe they would like to.

I'll have to get back with you on the jews.

[Angus]

Babek, think of it like this:
1. The USA considers Iran (now) as well as they did with Iraq to be a threat to them.
2. USA goes and knocks out the Iranian nuke effort, with some other things as bonus.
3. The S#!t hits the fan, and everybody is fighting everybody down there.
4. Current threat to the USA is eliminated.

They've done some spanking before.
Do you belive they'd do it again?

[babek-]

Originally posted by Edbert1
Okay, so the Iraqi arabs are the "greatest enemey" of the Iranians yet the Iraqis take their orders from the Iranians. Yet you say I'm the one that has been watching too much Sci-fi. Thanks for clearing that up:rolleyes:

All I am saying is that if a conflict arises between the Iranian Air Force and the USAF/USN the Iranian Air Force will be nothing more than smoking craters within a day, unless they flee. Period. I am not talking politics or long term counterinsurgency or police-actions here. The US military has proven to be incapable of carrying those types of actions out, mostly due to political leadership (or lack thereof), for over 50 years. I am talking about a conflict between air  forces here, it might not even last a day.

In one of the mails above I gave the IRIAF a few hours against the US air force - so we agree in this point.
Even if Iran would use exactly the same planes their pilots would be wiped from the sky because of the superior US-tactics and training.

The idea that they would flee to arabs is ... .at least strange for an iranian.
Very strange.

Arabs are considered as the worst enemies of Iran. That does not stop the iranians to use some of them for their own goals but if you say "arab" to an iranian you are insulting him.

The iranians fooled succesfully Saddam by luring his planes in Iran. Saddam really believed that he would get the 133 planes back. Maybe he was watching the arab sci fi channel

But again: We agree in the fact that the IRIAF would not be able to fight against the USAF.

[lukster]

I wouldn't say that Judaism is exactly flourshing in Iran.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html

[babek-]

Originally posted by Angus
Babek, think of it like this:
1. The USA considers Iran (now) as well as they did with Iraq to be a threat to them.
2. USA goes and knocks out the Iranian nuke effort, with some other things as bonus.
3. The S#!t hits the fan, and everybody is fighting everybody down there.
4. Current threat to the USA is eliminated.

They've done some spanking before.
Do you belive they'd do it again?

Yes - maybe you are right.

Ironicly most of the young iranians (and 70% of the iranians are 25 or younger) dont see the USA as an enemy. This will change after the US attack. Then we will have again a generation of fanatics and to wait 15 years for the next attempt.

Your point 3 is the nightmare. Everyone thinks that Iran is a great danger because of the possible nuclear developments.

I believe that Pakistan will be the muslim nation which presents the real danger.
They have already nukes, their government is corrupt and can be overthrown, they have fanatic sunnits.
Also tehy were and they still are the main supporters of the Taliban. The northern area of Pakistan is full with "religious schools" where the next Taliban terrorists are created.

But no one cares.

[lukster]

Originally posted by babek-
Yes - maybe you are right.

Ironicly most of the young iranians (and 70% of the iranians are 25 or younger) dont see the USA as an enemy. This will change after the US attack. Then we will have again a generation of fanatics and to wait 15 years for the next attempt.

Your point 3 is the nightmare. Everyone thinks that Iran is a great danger because of the possible nuclear developments.

I believe that Pakistan will be the muslim nation which presents the real danger.
They have already nukes, their government is corrupt and can be overthrown, they have fanatic sunnits.
Also tehy were and they still are the main supporters of the Taliban. The northern area of Pakistan is full with "religious schools" where the next Taliban terrorists are created.

But no one cares.

Who is no one?

Certainly many in the US do care. What would you have us do though? Currently there is a friendly government in power. While it may not be able to prevent the spread of the terrorist mentailty within it's own borders, letting the Taliban take over completely would be much worse. Too much interference by the US in Pakistan would undoubtedly drive more into the arms of the Taliban.

[Angus]

"Your point 3 is the nightmare. Everyone thinks that Iran is a great danger because of the possible nuclear developments."

Exactly why I don't like the guy in charge. He's paddling like crazy into a totally predictable madness.
Total nightmare. Absolutely.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by babek-
Ironicly most of the young iranians (and 70% of the iranians are 25 or younger) dont see the USA as an enemy. This will change after the US attack. Then we will have again a generation of fanatics and to wait 15 years for the next attempt.

so tell them to do something about the cheekbones running their country before he gets them all killed ..

why do we have to be concerned about future generations? we didn't worry with japan or germany after they got their arses handed to them..
why? because they are cheekboness themselves ..
this fighting wars with kit gloves and cnn media coverage has got to go if we ever expect to accomplish anything lasting

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by Eagler
this fighting wars with kit gloves and cnn media coverage has got to go ever expect to accomplish anything lasting

Exacly, but take out the "lasting" part. WIth our method of doing counterinsurgency and "police-actions" (whatever the hell that means if you are using the military), I'd say we don't even accomplish anything at all except encourage more of whatever we try to stop. In Dresden/Berlin/Tokyo we did accomplish much, we conclusively convinced entire nations/cultures/generations that they should not jack with the USofA.

We as a nation can be wonderful friends and trading partners or we can be fearful enemies, at least that used to be true. Now tin-hat dictators ensure their power over their opressed peoples by poking us with sticks.

[ghi]

The iranian policy is more and more anti-west/anti-semite,The  US and Israel must destroy iranian nuclear facilities,  with all the risks involved

 Ezekiel 38. shows clear that Persia/Iran is going to atack Israel, and they will better do it without nukes. This war predicted here didn't take place yet, was predicted over 2500 years ago
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   

Invasion by Gog
38 The word of the LORD came to me: 2Mortal, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. Prophesy against him 3and say: Thus says the Lord God: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; 4I will turn you around and put hooks into your jaws, and I will lead you out with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company, all of them with shield and buckler, wielding swords. 5Persia, Ethiopia,a and Put are with them, all of them with buckler and helmet; 6Gomer and all its troops; Beth-togarmah from the remotest parts of the north with all its troops--many peoples are with you

[moot]

Ghi why not run for president, in time for the TV debate with Ahmadinejad?

[babek-]

Thanks ghi for proving that not only Ahmadinedjad is a religious fanatic.