North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...

[Yeager]

Bottom line for me: As more and more nations hostile towards the united states aquire nuclear weapons, all humanity slips closer and closer towards finally killing itself off.  Maybe the asteroid wont get here in time, doesnt matter.  The universe will no doubt be better off without us.

Love while you can

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Neubob
You know this for a fact? I was under the impression that the siesmic signature of massed high explosives and atomic detonations were not similar--something to do with the expansion rates of gases. Of course, what do I know, I don't have a degree in geology or related fields.

TNT in large amounts COULD have the same effect.   Seismic signatures are measuring soundwaves, nothing else.  

I could DEFINATELY see them "testing the rest of the world" on how they could "React to a Bluff".    Not too stupid of a plan as well.   Hitler did the same thing a few times before WWII (Sudetenland, Austria, Rhineland).

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Warchief
The biggest factors to consider is this right now. China and Russia probably wanted NK to have Nuclear powerplants due to the influx of cash to the two countries. Neither wanted them to have Nukes. Because now China has lost face and will be held responsibility of what has happened in one shape or form. NK missils do not have the capacity to carry a Nuke to hit the US at the moments. But it can hit Japan (Huge US Ally), South Korea(US ally), CHina(HAS NUKES), and Russia(HAS NUKES). If NK was to bomb either South Korea or Japan with Nukes the US would respond. ANd do to numerous treaties between China, Russia, and NK they would respond. See where this is all going. NK has screwed themselves over on this one. China could very well go to F*** U NK your on your own and if Russia done the same. Can we so in future History Books could have this line. Here is Country of kore formely South Korea. There was a war on the Korean Pennisula all the way up to around 2010. In the year 2006 NK denoted a Nuke and sent the world against it. It was focred to stand alone. Shortly after that in a failed attempt to bomb either SK or Japan the US respond with a Nuke as well. NK was whiped out and ever since then the Country of NK became a Nuclear Wasteland with no life in it. The lesson to learn today students. one DONT PISS OFF YOUR NEIGHBORS and two dont piss of the US. Or you will find yourself on your own and destroyed. We shall all see hopw the world reacts to this. And we all know many will try to say this is because of the Americans and they did something. Well as an American is this remember when we shared fault with the rest of the world for its problems. Maybe one day we shall see most of the World take responbility of its own actions and not blame us for it all. Kinda thinking along those lines. How would the world feel about thsi one. We dont want to be blamed for your problems you solve them and leave us alone. I bet the worlds tune would changwe faster then Micheal Jackson appearance.

Spell check and paragraphs should be utilized.  I dropped my pitons and chaulkbag on this wall of text.

[Mace2004]

Originally posted by Yeager
Bottom line for me: As more and more nations hostile towards the united states aquire nuclear weapons, all humanity slips closer and closer towards finally killing itself off.  Maybe the asteroid wont get here in time, doesnt matter.  The universe will no doubt be better off without us.

Love while you can

Ahhhh...right.  You can't seriously believe that.  Maybe mankind has a history of war but it doesn't seem to have stopped progress.  We have more humans on Earth than at any time in history.  We have more civilized democracies and less tyranical regimes than at any time in history.  We have greater freedom, wealth, health and lifespans than in any time in history.  What you're saying sounds similar to those that belive in Gaia, "Mother Earth".  Those same people that view humans as a "virus" infecting Gaia.  That's fine if they want to believe something so asinine but if they were "true believers" why don't they do their part to eliminate the virus and commit suicide?  Life is what it is, you've gotta take the bad along with the good.

[FiLtH]

In this world where guerilla warfare can make a fool out of the best militaries in the world, by hiding amongst the civilains, perhaps the nuke will be the answer for it.  We would just have to be hard enough to want to use it.

[Sabre]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
TNT in large amounts COULD have the same effect.   Seismic signatures are measuring soundwaves, nothing else.  

I could DEFINATELY see them "testing the rest of the world" on how they could "React to a Bluff".    Not too stupid of a plan as well.   Hitler did the same thing a few times before WWII (Sudetenland, Austria, Rhineland).

Mash, seismic waves contain information (time-varying amplitudes, much like an AM radio signal), information that can (to a certain extent) be used to make educated inferences regarding the source of those signals.  While many factors come into play when trying to evaluate siesmic data, you'ld be quite amazed at how much information can be gleaned from it.  Seismic waves are similar to sound waves in that they represent pressure waves propagating through a medium (sound through air, seismic through rock/earth).  In the same way that we humans can identify the source of many sounds, scientists can quite often distinguish the sources of seismic data.  However, the signal processing can be quite complicated, and it can take quite a bit of time (hours, or even days) to reach a conclusion.

[bj229r]

Lol...the Dems get control of Senate and House, we might get some amusement:

Reid: Investigate Bush Over North Korea Nukes

Reacting to the announcement that North Korea successfully conducted a nuclear test, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) called Monday for an investigation of the Bush administration's "failed North Korea policies."

In a release, Reid said that "on the Bush Administration's watch, North Korea's arsenal has grown to as many as a dozen bombs," because he said Bush is "distracted by Iraq and paralyzed by internal divisions."

Calling the test "reckless and counterproductive," Reid called on Bush to "rally the international community and ... directly speak with the North Koreans so they understand we will not continue to stand on the sidelines."

Reid also called for a "full review" of the Bush administration's "failed North Korea policy," the development of "recommendations to change course," and direct communication with the North Koreans about "the consequence of their actions and the administration's new course."

In an election-year call for support, Reid said Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress "have made America less secure. It is time for a new direction," he said, referring to the Democrats' campaign slogan.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200610/POL20061009b.html

retort:

John Kerry was on MSNBC's Hardball college tour the other night, and retailed one of the great liberal lies of contemporary political discussion: that President Bush caused the North Korean crisis (the president is apparently a very busy man).



     
Kerry said of this administration's performance in North Korea: "They've handled it miserably. Abysmally. This has been one of the greatest abdications of foreign policy that I've seen in all the years that I've been in the Senate. And it began with a disastrous decision by the president to reverse the decision of Colin Powell to engage the North Koreans and pick up where Secretary Perry and Bill Clinton left off.

"We should have been engaged in bilateral negotiations from the get-go, from the beginning. And it was obvious that when you announce a policy of preemption and you invade another country, and you begin to build bunker-busting nuclear weapons, that Kim Jong Il was going to find a way to get the attention of this administration and he did."

Kerry clearly was creating the impression that North Korea's cheating on the 1994 Agreed Framework came about because of Bush's Iraq policy and the administration's interest in studying — nothing has been built yet — new bunker-busting nukes. The problem with this scenario, as I demonstrate in my new book Legacy: Paying the Price for the Clinton Years, is that the North Koreans were cheating during the Clinton administration.

The secret North Korean uranium-enrichment program — to which they confessed in October 2002 — had been in operation since 1997 or 1998. If the North Koreans were cheating in 1998 because they already knew that Bush would be elected and invade Iraq, maybe Kim Jong Il really is the bizarre paranormal being he sometimes seems.

Actually, the North Korean cheating wasn't the least bit surprising. The CIA had thought North Korea wouldn't comply with the agreement all along. "Based on North Korea's past behavior," the CIA reported in 1995, "the [intelligence] community agrees it would dismantle its known program, [only] if it had covertly developed another source of fissile material."

The U.S. came to believe in 1997, for instance, that North Korea had built an underground nuclear facility in Kumchang-ri. The administration still dishonestly maintained that all was well with the Agreed Framework. On July 8, 1998, Albright told Congress, the Agreed Framework had "frozen North Korea's dangerous nuclear-weapons program." When intelligence about the suspect site at Kumchang-ri became public in August 1998, Albright told frustrated senators at a hearing that she hadn't known about the information until later in July. The head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, present at the hearing, had to interrupt her: "Madame Secretary, that is incorrect." She had been told many months earlier.

It was clear by the late 1990s to honest observers that North Korea still had a nuclear-weapons program, while it was spreading missile technology far and wide and battening itself on U.S. support in keeping with the Agreed Framework. In response to congressional outrage, the administration tapped former defense secretary William Perry in late 1998 to review its North Korean policy. He said in March 1999, "What they're doing is moving forward on their nuclear weapons." He added, "We believe this is very serious. The long-range-missile program itself suggests in parallel the development of a nuclear weapons program."

http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200310221200.asp

[Arlo]

Originally posted by ByeBye
If it's true, then good for them!

Everyone knows that South Korea and the US have always wanted to invade North Korea and capture all of its wealth and technology.

Seriously, what justification does NK have in buidling a nuke?

What justification does Iran have? What justification did Pakistan have? What justification does crazy joe living in the mountains of West Virginia have (if he could)?

You're familiar with the ancient story of "Pandora's Box?"

[Stang]

LOL every time I hear Harry Reid speak it makes me want to throw **** at the TV.  The only worse speaker out there is Dubya.

[Wolfala]

Originally posted by Stang
LOL every time I hear Harry Reid speak it makes me want to throw **** at the TV.  The only worse speaker out there is Dubya.

Well, if you compare GW's oration skills right after 9/11 and now, he's improved, relative to his competition.

I remember watching his state of the union right after the attack, being so pissed off - and I don't remember if I was pissed off at the attack or at him so sounding like a 6 year old with down syndrome.

[Mace2004]

Reid and Kerry....what a pair of a**holes.  This is the perfect example of why I dispise the Democrat party.  They have no ideas at all.  Doesn't matter to them the ramifications of their actions, only what issue can they spin to use against Bush so they can regain political power.  They have no problem ignoring the previous administration.  It's all about Bush.  Like I've said before, don't these guys realize that Bush is term-limited?  They keep trying to run against Bush, and they don't seem to do very well at that even after years of practice.  Like I said, they're a**holes.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Auger
Frankly, I think every country should have nukes.  Balance of power and all that.  It will make any first use of nuclear weapons a suicide mission when all of the other countries dump on the initiator.  It may also get the electorate in the professed "free" countries to pay a bit more attention to whom they vote into office.

Good point.....how Chirac ever got elected is beyond me.

[BTW]

Originally posted by RAIDER14
how long would it take a missile to reach a target in the U.S. from over there

Fedex or UPS? It sure aint flying under its own power.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
How does a kid with a rock (North Korea) hurt a man with a rifle (USA)?  By waiting until someone else staggers the man, perhaps knocking him down, then running up and smashing his head.

Real life situation:  The US gets hit by another terrorist attack.  Confusion and casualties.  Then a nuclear weapon goes off in DC.

Nuclear weapons can be traced to where they were mined.  Most of Russias weapons were mined in China for example.  Whos to say NKs werent mined there too?

A nuclear weapon going off in Washington DC would be a marked improvement.

[BTW]

You have a guy in a crowded bar with an ak47. You can walk into the bar with 3 ak47's and kill the guy and probably a lot of innocent people. You can also walk in the bar with an ice pick (or screw driver) and just kill the guy with the ak47. The answer is in diplomacy. Diplomacy gets you close. Then you just need something sharp.