Author Topic: How can we keep the small arenas fun?  (Read 4665 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2006, 03:15:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict
that I could (almost) live with.  Last night in the MWA, however, it was more like 60 rooks, 20 bish and 7 knights.


Again, this "favoring" varies from day to day.   I guess I'll start taking screenshots supporting my findings.  

But that being said, something still needs to be done, and a couple of my suggestions, should curb the whining for a day.

Also, those 60 Rooks are more than likely fighting both the Bish and Knights.   Again, for the last week or so I haven't seen much Bish/Knight fighting.
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Offline BugsBunny

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2006, 03:31:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
I don't know Bugs ... In the current setup ... After a capture, 99% of the time I could tell you exactly what field will be next on the hording highway ... they think "straight line". Make them move and re-group ... some might drop off and/or get bored waiting for all the lemmings to get things together ... which might take some of the steam out of the steam roller.


I think thats what I meant but maybe I did not word it right.  I like the idea, or atlist giving it a try.  I like the idea of aplying something like ENY for the number of fields you can capture.  The higher the ENY the less bases available to you for capture, or something like that.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2006, 03:35:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Again, this "favoring" varies from day to day.   I guess I'll start taking screenshots supporting my findings.  

But that being said, something still needs to be done, and a couple of my suggestions, should curb the whining for a day.

Also, those 60 Rooks are more than likely fighting both the Bish and Knights.   Again, for the last week or so I haven't seen much Bish/Knight fighting.


Not last night ... Rooks were rolling the Knights in a seal cub clubbing frenzy ... to "WiNz Ze W@rZ" ... it was laughable.
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Offline E25280

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2006, 03:59:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Had a new thought today on field capture.

What if each country had only 2 fields that could be captured at any one time.
I.E. Bish would have 1 field on the knight front , and 1 field on the rook front that could be captured.

Once one a  field was captured , the next one back would then be available for capture.

HiTech
This would solve the "milkrunning" problem in an underpopulated arena.  But in an arena with higher numbers (Ex. LWA on Friday nights), with say with 40 on each side at the same base, it might lead to gridlock / frustration and all associated whining (not to mention my poor Frame Rates!).  I like Plucks take:

Quote
Originally posted by pluck
maybe if one team has 30 players, while the other 5, then only 1 base could be attacked on the lower numbered side, while the lower numbered side has more options.


It might be "easier" to implement  if the number of capturable bases was purely dependant on the defending side's numbers.  15 or fewer, 1 base per front, 16-30, 2 bases per front, etc. (obviously just throwing numbers, don't know that those would be the correct ones).

But even then you end up eliminating the "hail mary" play  or sneak captures where a small group goes NOE to a base deep behind the front to either stir up trouble or take pressure off the front (knights used to do this quite often in the past, it seemed).  So, to the point others have made, it may be considered "overly limiting" by some of the more "strategic thinkers", leaving only the brute force method as a viable option.

Out of curiosity, would the captureable bases be known to both sides?  Just the attacking side?  (OMG -- hopefully not just the defending side!  "Town is flat!  Don't know why the troops didnt take!" :O )
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Offline Masherbrum

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2006, 03:59:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Not last night ... Rooks were rolling the Knights in a seal cub clubbing frenzy ... to "WiNz Ze W@rZ" ... it was laughable.


Again, in my first post I said it varies.  

I enjoy "sneaking a base" more than "steamrolling" one.  

The Late Mjollnir and myself would OFTEN capture bases with just an M3 and a Tiger, each us of taking turns.
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Offline killnu

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2006, 04:06:46 PM »
I got an idea...up a base back, get some alt and kill them.  LW lately has been a blast to be a rook...yes the outnumbered rooks.  Ive seen the 150 bish, 120 nits and 80 rooks...so what?   more to kill.:aok
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Offline FiLtH

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2006, 05:03:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Had a new thought today on field capture.

What if each country had only 2 fields that could be captured at any one time.
I.E. Bish would have 1 field on the knight front , and 1 field on the rook front that could be captured.

Once one a  field was captured , the next one back would then be available for capture.

HiTech



    If you could find a way to do that, but have the frontline bases have no ord, so bombers had to come further it may not be bad. If not, Im afraid it would just channel the mob and they would be happy taking one at a time faster than they could be defended.

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Offline WMLute

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2006, 05:15:12 PM »
Actually, HT's idea is kind of smart.

By only having one base capturable at a time, it would force the hoards to meet.  Basically, it would funnel the fights to that field.  It would make it much easier to defend, and would ALSO make it muuuuch harder to take a field.  Everybody would know what field is being attacked, and would be able to mount a defense.

Not sure it would work, but a most interesting idea.  This way the furball types, and the strat types, and the capture types would all be mixed together at the one field.

It MIGHT be worth a try.  

Follow up...  How would vbases and ports fit into this equasion?

BTW, I ALWAYS have said that the side #'s should not affect ENY, but the hardness of the strats.  If rooks have high #'s, their strat should die easier, and stay dead longer.  If rooks have low #'s, their strat should be tougher to kill, and reup faster.

Example.
Rooks 80
Bish 50
Knits 10

Rooks FH/BH/VH hardness would drop to say 1.2-1.5k to kill and stay down 25min instead of 15.

Bish FH/BH/VH harness would drop to 1.8k ish to kill and stay down for 19min instead of 15.

Knights FH/BH/VH harness would raise to 3k ish to kill, and stay down for 10min instead of 15.

This way, it would be easy to stop the hoards in their tracks with some quick strat runs.  Would also be tough to take a field if the town and VH keeps popin' up in 8-10 min.  Hmmm.... more ord/ammo to kill town buildings would also be added into this.  I am LIKIN' this more and more.  By doing this, the hoard's #'s are offset by how much tougher it is to kill stuff, and keep it dead because it reups much faster.

This would promote side balancing I would think.  Would you rather fly for the side that it takes 3k to kill a vh or 1k?  Would you rather be on the team where vh's up every 10min or 30?  Hmmmmm......

BUT the 1 field thing HT suggested is good 2.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 05:44:16 PM by WMLute »
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Offline bsdaddict

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2006, 05:48:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute

BTW, I ALWAYS have said that the side #'s should not affect ENY, but the hardness of the strats.  If rooks have high #'s, their strat should die easier, and stay dead longer.  If rooks have low #'s, their strat should be tougher to kill, and reup faster.

Example.
Rooks 80
Bish 50
Knits 10

Rooks FH/BH/VH hardness would drop to say 1.2-1.5k to kill and stay down 25min instead of 15.

Bish FH/BH/VH harness would drop to 1.8k ish to kill and stay down for 19min instead of 15.

Knights FH/BH/VH harness would raise to 3k ish to kill, and stay down for 10min instead of 15.

This way, it would be easy to stop the hoards in their tracks with some quick strat runs.  Would also be tough to take a field if the town and VH keeps popin' up in 8-10 min.  Hmmm.... more ord/ammo to kill town buildings would also be added into this.  I am LIKIN' this more and more.  By doing this, the hoard's #'s are offset by how much tougher it is to kill stuff, and keep it dead because it reups much faster.

This would promote side balancing I would think.  Would you rather fly for the side that it takes 3k to kill a vh or 1k?  Would you rather be on the team where vh's up every 10min or 30?  Hmmmmm......

IMHO, this has potential...  encourages self-evening of teams and accounts for the die-hard loyalists.

Offline Simaril

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2006, 08:01:46 PM »
I also like HiTech's theme, with the riffs contributed by Lute, Slap, and Pluck.

ENY was unpopular because it struck to the core of gameplay, directly limiting what you could fly in this FLYING game. These proposals, on the other hand, leave full choice of planes...so you can still fly what you want. Instead, these ideas turn things that are purely gameplay negatives (the side imbalances, difficulty focusing play with small arena numbers) and turns them into strategic elements.

Here's a suggestion to tie these threads together, and maybe even add more depth to the strategic components of the game.

1. Use the existing zone lines for capturable blocks, as well as for repair/resupply. Only bases inside an eligible zone enter the pool for capturable bases, and the entire zone must be captured before another zone opens up. The zone base must be the last one taken.

2. A balancing formula would adjust both the number of bases vulnerable to capture, and to  lesser degree the hardness of the town buildings.  I suspect varying troop requirements would be far to difficult to accomodate on a mission, and hangars are too easy to bypass when the swarm has 10x more vulchers than they need for CAP.

I'd suggest the formula compare force ratios between country PAIRS rather than the overall arena. That way the group with 50 has a practical incentive to attack the side with 35 (1.5 ratio) instead of the one with 5 (10.0 ratio).

3. Vulnerable bases would be  marked for both attackers and defenders. Random assignment might help diffuse the attackers, but since it also diffuses defenders -- and there are fewer of them -- it would likely be counterproductive. Instead, make thinking ahead MORE important by using the current "board" to determine the next base available. Add the ranges from enemy bases to friendly ones; whatever base has the lowest sum is vulnerable. Predictable effects reward planning.


4. Town building hardness would vary only by 50% either way. So, at the worst, the Goliath horde would need 1.5 times normal ammo, and the few Davids would see buildings drop with half the usual.





So how would this work out?

Others have pointed out how the fighting would be concentrated, so the defenders would know where they needed to be. But, they'd also have to choose...if they tried to draw off enemies by attacking elsewhere, they'd weaken their defense. If they attacked, it would be easier and faster to take a base than now.

Taking bases would shift the vulnerable one, by altering the distance lines in a predictable way...so planning, rather than hording, gets favored.

The zone base could be a fizzle...or, occasionally, might be The Mother of All Battles. Although surrounded, the other bases are easier to pork since they dint have friendly strat to resupply...

I think this has a lot of potential, both to deal with the balance in new arenas, add to strategic depth,  and maybe even to replace the ENY
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 08:10:09 PM by Simaril »
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Offline FALCONWING

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2006, 08:09:55 PM »
1) I like hitech's idea...good place to start!!!

2) restore the old arena numbers please...go ahead and keep the others...but the last 6 months beofre the switch..numbers were fairly even and large maps lasted almost all week without a reset!!!

3) Sim..you are getting stale...you start by saying there were 60 rooks and 20 bish and 5 knits...then it suudenly becomes "a certain large bish squads fault" that they dont fly against superior numbered rooks for you. AND (even though 60 rooks didnt switch countries) it becomes again the fault of "a certain large bish squad" that they didnt fix an unfixable solution.  Instead they winged and had fun as they could...likely didnt whine on 200...and didnt run in here to post on the "unfairness" of the rooks.  

Please try to start looking for real solutions that dont include YOU telling others how to be fair...ty
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Offline MOSQ

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2006, 08:15:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Had a new thought today on field capture.

What if each country had only 2 fields that could be captured at any one time.
I.E. Bish would have 1 field on the knight front , and 1 field on the rook front that could be captured.

Once one a  field was captured , the next one back would then be available for capture.

HiTech


Unlike other posters I think this would NOT allow the steamroll to roll on. Because all the defenders would have to do is pork troops for the two-three enemy bases around the designated capturable field and there won't be any base captures going on at all.

Unless the hoard redirects resources to running field supplies in. Maybe they'd rather switch at least some players to a country that still has troops available to make captures.

Offline Monster0

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2006, 08:18:40 PM »
Creating new arenas was not the solution imo.  The hording is even worst in the early and mid war arenas.  WMLute and HiTech have come up with some good solutions.  

I believe seperating us was not a great idea.  Shoot I only ask for One sector where all 3 countries can meet.  Take ord and bombers away from fields and limit it to early war planes.  Not an arena all to myself :<  

One arena that has all three options (ew,mw and lw) within it.  It's all about the map and the position of fields.  Fester started understand this in the maps he created.  Especially the one he limited furball island to ew no ord and bomber.

Those few days we saw a change in game play.  Great example was tuning to 200 and seeing all the and gf.  People began to only play on furball island and you only heard a few complaints.  From those that didn't play on furball island.  200 plays a big part in my game so I tend to log on the bigger arena.

Offline Dichotomy

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« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2006, 08:21:23 PM »
"Please try to start looking for real solutions that dont include YOU telling others how to be fair...ty"  

Sims suggestions looked to me like options open for discussion rather than him directing someone.  

My opinion, for what it's worth, is let's keep it civil and on topic rather than attacking each other for once.
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Offline Sweet2th

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How can we keep the small arenas fun?
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2006, 08:25:40 PM »
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My opinion, for what it's worth, is let's keep it civil and on topic rather than attacking each other for once



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