Author Topic: Can you stand after being tased? (Read 4022 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #45 on:** November 17, 2006, 12:18:39 PM »

The version I posted was from some news stories, but here's something from a first hand witness that's much more detailed and shows a different side:

http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=12336

Sounds like the guy was an asshat. I don't like the use of Tazers and threatening to taze someone for asking for the badge, but it sounds like this guy was hardly the Ghandi he was originally described as.

myelo · « **Reply #46 on:** November 17, 2006, 12:28:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
How long can a camera phone record a video? The clip in the thread is almost 7 minutes long (6 minutes 53 secs). Ive got a 128 meg storage chip in mine and it's only good for about 30 seconds of video IIRC.

But you're an old guy. The hip kids these days have much better equipment.

Golfer · « **Reply #47 on:** November 17, 2006, 12:36:47 PM »

that film looks like it was shot using the movie feature on a digital camera.

mine does the same and it's good on maximum settings for about 13 minutes with a 1GB memory card.

myelo · « **Reply #48 on:** November 17, 2006, 12:49:01 PM »

Several reports indicate it was a camera phone, including:
http://dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?id=38958

Not that it really matters, unless you're gullible enough to really fall for the conspiracy theory.

lukster · « **Reply #49 on:** November 17, 2006, 01:22:28 PM »

This thread has earned the time honored advice of Chris Rock.

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2458063

Maverick · « **Reply #50 on:** November 17, 2006, 01:29:08 PM »

Thrawn,

Joint locks and other methods of pain compliance require the use of infliction of pain. Kind of lke a taser. They also require that you place yourself inside the suspects threat area, in other words reach and reaction area. That means, using a joint lock that you are taking an apendage like a finger or wrist or elbow and applying pressure to it in a manner that it is not NORMALLY going to bend. In other words you are applying force that in some cases may cause phyical damage such as tendon, ligament dqamage as well as breaking a bone. Remember you have no idea if the individual is double jointed or used to bending joints in an atypical manner either. You can almost bet on it that the person who has had a joint lock or other methods of "pain compliance" used will be back again after seeking medical attention and be claiming injury because of it. Infliction of pain compliance, by definition means the infliction of some type of force up to the actual injury level be it bruising up to breaks and dislocations. You are also now well past the physical arrest point as you would be in the use of a tazer.

You are also putting yourself in a position to be assaulted by the individual whol may be loudly proclaiming that they are not "resisting" but are in fact physically fighting you and refusing to co operate.

Using physical force that can and often does lead to injuries (to both sides) is a bit above a tazer in that once you have to try to grapple with the suspect you are now in a fight with them and not only your physical person is in reach of the suspect, so is your weapon. A review of the appropriate departmental policy in regards to the use of a tazer may also shed some light on when it is used. The policy may state that a tazer should be used on any suspect who is physically resisting before other more injurious methods like joint locks are used.

I've been to the defensive tactics instructor school in my home state. While some things likely have changed (there were no tazers when I went to it) the situations remain the same. Technology has not made a significant difference in the need to take a suspect into custody, it did make it less injurious to the suspect and Officers involved. When you have to grapple and fight using brute force you are far far more likely to have injuries to the suspect and Officers involved than by just zapping them into submission, especially when they are already on the ground.

Grappling also looks (and is) far more violent than the application of a tazer or stun gun. Doing so in a crowd situation where you are applying more than one Officer to the suspect is an invitation to have crowd participation into the party whether by desire to just hurt a cop or misguided loyalty to the one causeing the problem to begin with. If you are on the ground your options to respond to the crowd are very few and the crowd will have your back as a target.

Civil disobedience is also a situation of careful staging and playing to the media by those who are engaged in the alleged "peacefull protest". Ever see any of the tapes of the protestors claiming chemical warfare and torture when a mild tear agent was carefully applied, with a cuetip, as they were physically removed from the location of protest? This guy tried to set up that same kind of situation by inciting others to assist him and inciting to riot is also another criminal offense.

Sandman · « **Reply #51 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:01:40 PM »

There's a witness account here:

http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=12336

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #52 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:19:14 PM »

Demanding a police officer give you his badge number DURING THE PROCESS OF A VIOLENT NON COMPLIANT ARREST is not only stupid and foolish, but at that point his refusal to comply with you and an attending threat to use force if you do not immediately leave the area DOES NOT constitute ANY form of assault. In fact, it makes you guilty of interfering with an officer in the performance of his duty, and that makes you subject to immediate arrest and prosecution for same. AFTER the incident is over and the perp has been fully detained, you can ask for a badge number or whatever suits you. But you CANNOT interfere in an arrest.

Sandman · « **Reply #53 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:21:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Demanding a police officer give you his badge number DURING THE PROCESS OF A VIOLENT NON COMPLIANT ARREST is not only stupid and foolish

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that although it may indeed be possible to get up and walk after being tazed, he probably wasn't thinking all that clearly.

rogwar · « **Reply #54 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:33:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
In short when told to leave he should have left, prior to the Police being called. Once the Police arrived he most defintely should have left. Once being told he would be tased if he didn't get up he should have gotten up and left. He did none of those things. He got tased and arrested. All of his histrionics were obviously an attempt to sway the situation to his control and he lost. He was in the wrong and paid for it.

As you stated, he would have been in criminal trespass when he didn't finally leave after being told by the cops. Actually the cops gave him a second chance because he really could have been in trespass after being told to leave by the staff.

The dude then proceeded into crossing the threshold for "resisting arrest", That's what got him tazed. Campus police, while detested by some students, are still typically sworn officers of the law.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #55 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:48:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that although it may indeed be possible to get up and walk after being tazed, he probably wasn't thinking all that clearly.

It was not the person being tazed that demanded badge numbers. It was a bystander who started moving into the immediate area of the incident, who demanded the badge numbers.

Sandman · « **Reply #56 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:49:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It was not the person being tazed that demanded badge numbers. It was a bystander who started moving into the immediate area of the incident, who demanded the badge numbers.

That person is a moron.

x0847Marine · « **Reply #57 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:51:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
I don't see why a taser should be used when it's not necessary. Someone being unwilling isn't a reason to tase in my opinion, especially when there's multiple cops around the person in question. Taser is not an obedience tool, but a non-lethal weapon against a person who's actions could result in physical injury to someone trying to apprehend the person. A trained police officer should be fully able to handle a reluctant person without the use of weapons, let alone multiple officers against one.

Multiple shocks from a taser can make a person somewhat limp and dazed, not fully able to think straight. I've seen couple of other videos where cops tases a guy plentiful of times and in each video the person subjected to shocks is unable to move at the end. One guy couldn't even get his hands behind his back while laying on the ground. Fortunately the cop finally gave up tasing the person if he didn't do *exactly* as told and cuffed him - I was almost sure the cop would jolt the guy a yet another time if he wouldn't put hands behind his back.

Have cops suddenly became lazy cowards, unable to deal a mildly reluctant person without weapons?

No, but departments encourage the use of tazers because it's a lot less ugly, safer for the officers, innocents, and the suspect than "fighting" him, or to use a tactical term "swarm". Before being issued a tazer my only options were impact weapons / chemical spray (PR-24 / pepperspray) , deadly force (S&W 645 .45), or hands on mono y mono fisticuffs. Not that I minded the occasional thump, but its a heck of a lot easier to drop some dude in his tracks from 10 feet, than touch him.

You can thank bottom feeder lawyers for making every video of the police doing their jobs into a horrific violation of human rights... now there's no huge brawl to tape, just a dude dropping to the deck getting cuffed... probably screaming not to be jolted again.

And if he had no ID card, hes a trespassing suspect.. if a library employee asked him to leave, and he refused, hes already technically committed the crime of trespass (Cal 602PC / via 837PC)... agreeing to leave once the gendarme arrives does not erase that.

FYI I UCLA cops are fully trained 830.1 PC "Law enforcement officers", POST certified by the state and attend the LA Sheriffs academy.. they're not part of LA Countys new "wannabe" police who get 1/2 the training and all the responsibility.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #58 on:** November 17, 2006, 03:29:22 PM »

Anyone who thinks using a taser to subdue a suspect is immorall has never had anyone go for your sidearm and try to end your life.

Thrawn what you don't realize is that getting close to a violent person not only puts you, but them, and the crowd as well in danger.

Thrawn · « **Reply #59 on:** November 17, 2006, 03:32:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Anyone who thinks using a taser to subdue a suspect is immorall has never had anyone go for your sidearm and try to end your life.

Thrawn what you don't realize is that getting close to a violent person not only puts you, but them, and the crowd as well in danger.

What you don't realize is that I'm not one to sacrifice freedom for safety.