Testing Capture system in LW orange today

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Solar10
Interesting then that this is a test and a thread to get feedback on the test.

I'm interested on what Dale sees as the success factors for the test and how will he measure against those measures.  I would suggest if you don't like the set up don't fly in that arena.

I haven't flow it yet so I cannot comment but I am happy that Hitech has put in a test run rather than wide scale changes.  

How long is the test planned for before a decision is made?

I believe that this change is here to stay ... the test is to see what adjustments/tweaks need to be made to make the "base" concept better ... on the same lines as ENY.

With that, Dale has ALWAYS been open to ideas ... it's the whines that he ignores IMO ... so rather than complain in this thread ... think of ways that he can adjust/tweak this concept to make it better.

I am still not convinced on the "linear" aspect of available captures ... I think that the "linear" notion provides too much focus in just one area.

Someone (can't remember who) mentioned a "spider" effect to captures and I think that needs some more looking into to spread the focus a little bit.

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Edbert
The source of the confusion is this quote...
 

By "not in the list" one can ssume he means not on the blue line. Not sure how to know which these are but the implication that there are other capturable fields is clear.

Right-click on the clipboard map, select "Country Status", and it will show all the fields that can be captured for each country.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Quah!
I would agree Dan,

There is more strategery in an NOE end run at the front then there ever was for one 5 sectors behind the lines.

So sneaking a base 5 sectors back has no affect on the country that it was taken from?  I beg to differ.

It's a common occurance on the bases that have large area's of water surrounding the mainland that one country will sneak an outlying enemy base.  Once this happens there is a massive effort to take that base back.  This in turn removes players from the front line.  Less players on the front line means less resistance on the front line.  
If the take is successfully and well coordinated, the attacking country will then quickly take bases around the primary base and pork troops in the area.  This quickly becomes a thorn in the country's side and a lot of resources are spent trying to get the bases back.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Again this doesn't make sense to me as the GV guys played a big part in what I was involved with last night.  20 changed hands a few times after 34 was taken.  20 was the Vbase and it was tankers in action there.  Rook tankers were working 33 as well while we did the NOE to get 20.  GV types were responsible for the capture of 34 after the goon couldn't make it in.  LVTs (I remember 4-5 rolling across 34 towards the town.  I was bellied in with my 38 on 34 after flak damage and watched them)

I have to agree here.

We took V20 and GVs rolled for the next base A33. In the meantime, V20 was taken back. The 110 NOE raid then leveled and re-took V20 ... which took our V34 off the capture list ... very important move.

I then lifted off our CV that was off A33 coast and when I arrived at the town ... there were at least 10 GVs surrounding the town ... mind you these guys launched when we originally took V20 and maintained their attack after we lost V20 and then took it back.

I helped take out the ack at A33 town with my HellCat rockets and then the GVs really went to work on it ... with multiple M3s waiting in the woods.

After we took A33 ... V20 was still on the capture list so I went back to check on it ... there were at least 6 guys there still protecting V20 ... something that would have never happened with the old system. As long as we controlled V20 ... A34 was not captureable ... that was the incentive to keep V20.

So as far as GVs being taken out of the action ... I think not ... I think that they just got a new life in AH. Without GVs ... those captures would not have been possible IMO.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Right-click on the clipboard map, select "Country Status", and it will show all the fields that can be captured for each country.

I'm sure there was some design doc written or something sketched out as to what the desired outcome of this new concept is.  Would it be possible to let us in on what dictates which bases are capturable?   What's the logic?

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Right-click on the clipboard map, select "Country Status", and it will show all the fields that can be captured for each country.

Hmmmm .... I thought it was "Field order".

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Donzo
So sneaking a base 5 sectors back has no affect on the country that it was taken from?  I beg to differ.

It's a common occurance on the bases that have large area's of water surrounding the mainland that one country will sneak an outlying enemy base.  Once this happens there is a massive effort to take that base back.  This in turn removes players from the front line.  Less players on the front line means less resistance on the front line.  
If the take is successfully and well coordinated, the attacking country will then quickly take bases around the primary base and pork troops in the area.  This quickly becomes a thorn in the country's side and a lot of resources are spent trying to get the bases back.

I'll buy that argument, but conditionally.  If numbers are relatively equal in all three countries, for someone to pull off a hail mary like that is something.  But generally it's being done from the high numbers country when the other guy isn't in a position to defend everywhere with the numbers he has.

The trend had become race to reset with numbers always being off and the steamroller taking all the undefended bases as fast and easy as possible just to get the 'so and so has won the war' message.

Even last night the Rooks got overwhelming numbers at one point and were rolling.  But knowing that they had to work a certain direction at least lets the low numbers folks concentrate those numbers to try and defend.

To me the bottom line is it's all about the fight.  Anything that puts the players in a position to fight other players is a good thing.  There is little point to flying an online sim against other players if you are only trying to avoid them.

[kamilyun]

Whew.  

Not gonna whine, point fingers and gnash teeth.  Here are my observations and suggestions.

1.  First off, props to HTC for trying something different.  It was/is interesting to say the least.

2.  I thought it was fun to try something new.  I willingly chose to log into LW Orange and try the new system.  There were 3 other arenas for me to try, but I wanted to "stress" the new system.

3.  A linear capture sequence forces big fights.  This is not bad in itself.  I do not buy that any style of play is being hurt.  Flying as a bish last night, I found myself getting bombed by buff dudes, shot down by furballers, and plinked by gv dudes.  I was a target to a variety of players.

4.  The new linear capture system does NOTHING for what I view as the fundamental problem:  

Players on the big #'s team like their advantages and will not change sides to balance.

5.  ENY alone does not solve #4 problem.  When outnumbered 2:1, it doesn't matter if they are only flying P40s and 110Gs...you will still get your head kicked in and steamrolled.

I would humbly suggest that something be done to get players out of their safe #'s mentality.

My suggestions (radical, but no less radical than a linear capture sequence):

- Country with overwhelming #'s has name changed to "The Queens"
- The Queens are given pink icons instead of green or red.
- The country with the least #'s gets name changed to "Pawns" or "Pwns"
- The Pawns get 163s enabled along the frontlines.
- Linear capture goes away or is allowed at 2 bases per front (total of 4 per country)

These changes are linked to ENY, and can be reversed simply by changing sides.

Yay Queens!

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by SlapShot
I have to agree here.

We took V20 and GVs rolled for the next base A33. In the meantime, V20 was taken back. The 110 NOE raid then leveled and re-took V20 ... which took our V34 off the capture list ... very important move.

I then lifted off our CV that was off A33 coast and when I arrived at the town ... there were at least 10 GVs surrounding the town ... mind you these guys launched when we originally took V20 and maintained their attack after we lost V20 and then took it back.

I helped take out the ack at A33 town with my HellCat rockets and then the GVs really went to work on it ... with multiple M3s waiting in the woods.

After we took A33 ... V20 was still on the capture list so I went back to check on it ... there were at least 6 guys there still protecting V20 ... something that would have never happened with the old system. As long as we controlled V20 ... A34 was not captureable ... that was the incentive to keep V20.

So as far as GVs being taken out of the action ... I think not ... I think that they just got a new life in AH. Without GVs ... those captures would not have been possible IMO.

Think about that.  Talk about combined operations

Land, sea and air all working towards the same end.  Isn't that what the strategy types enjoy?

[scottydawg]

Originally posted by kamilyun
My suggestions (radical, but no less radical than a linear capture sequence):

- Country with overwhelming #'s has name changed to "The Queens"
- The Queens are given pink icons instead of green or red.
- The country with the least #'s gets name changed to "Pawns" or "Pwns"
- The Pawns get 163s enabled along the frontlines.
- Linear capture goes away or is allowed at 2 bases per front (total of 4 per country)

These changes are linked to ENY, and can be reversed simply by changing sides.

Yay Queens!

kamilyun winz teh thread!

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Hmmmm .... I thought it was "Field order".

Nope, the list is all the fields that can currently be captured by the country.

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by kamilyun
Whew.  

Not gonna whine, point fingers and gnash teeth.  Here are my observations and suggestions.

1.  First off, props to HTC for trying something different.  It was/is interesting to say the least.

2.  I thought it was fun to try something new.  I willingly chose to log into LW Orange and try the new system.  There were 3 other arenas for me to try, but I wanted to "stress" the new system.

3.  A linear capture sequence forces big fights.  This is not bad in itself.  I do not buy that any style of play is being hurt.  Flying as a bish last night, I found myself getting bombed by buff dudes, shot down by furballers, and plinked by gv dudes.  I was a target to a variety of players.

4.  The new linear capture system does NOTHING for what I view as the fundamental problem:  

Players on the big #'s team like their advantages and will not change sides to balance.

5.  ENY alone does not solve #4 problem.  When outnumbered 2:1, it doesn't matter if they are only flying P40s and 110Gs...you will still get your head kicked in and steamrolled.

I would humbly suggest that something be done to get players out of their safe #'s mentality.

My suggestions (radical, but no less radical than a linear capture sequence):

- Country with overwhelming #'s has name changed to "The Queens"
- The Queens are given pink icons instead of green or red.
- The country with the least #'s gets name changed to "Pawns" or "Pwns"
- The Pawns get 163s enabled along the frontlines.
- Linear capture goes away or is allowed at 2 bases per front (total of 4 per country)

These changes are linked to ENY, and can be reversed simply by changing sides.

Yay Queens!

And, their icon on the maps is a pink triangle.

[Quah!]

I'll buy that argument, but conditionally. If numbers are relatively equal in all three countries, for someone to pull off a hail mary like that is something. But generally it's being done from the high numbers country when the other guy isn't in a position to defend everywhere with the numbers he has.

The trend had become race to reset with numbers always being off and the steamroller taking all the undefended bases as fast and easy as possible just to get the 'so and so has won the war' message.

Even last night the Rooks got overwhelming numbers at one point and were rolling. But knowing that they had to work a certain direction at least lets the low numbers folks concentrate those numbers to try and defend.

To me the bottom line is it's all about the fight. Anything that puts the players in a position to fight other players is a good thing. There is little point to flying an online sim against other players if you are only trying to avoid them.

I concur.

[Laurie]

Originally posted by Quah!
OK Laurie, since you know nothing about me, but you seem to pontificate as if you do.

Please do share what forms of strategery there were??  I love how all the you guys talk about strategery but none can site concrete examples other than NOE missions that are nothing more than hitting undefended bases after flying sectors on sectors 200 feet off the deck, only to be squashed by two planes defending.  I have broken up more of these NOE boon dogles than you have flown I would wager.


 
Hmm When only strat guys are on in EW and MW and LW/Old MA it is no different.  Its the same dam thing except you have the choice to go take undefended bases.  Under this change yes you are forced to fight.  What a shame, down with this game. LOL cmon honestly what is missing other than hitting undefended bases.

Yes you have to fight other people.  In this case you call em cherry pickers and furballers.  Well now maybe your new strategery should be learning how to escort your bombers and goons.

Bombing the HQ, Bombing the city is a tactic, bombing a troops factory, dar facotry e.t.c, also porking, an osit raid, i could go on.

and yes i do fight other people, but not make it my sole purpose in the game, if i want to fly planes round in circles ill use Micrsoft flight sim. i do join in fruballs now and then, but not slum in them all day.



 being restriceted to one base is no fun.

[KryptoniteXP]

I've read from several people that the idea is to get people to fight eachother more....  How do you know this?  Was this announced somewhere and I missed it?  Are you part of the planning stage?  If that's the official reason for this, please let us know.

What I think is the reason for this test is....

1. Making maps is time consuming
2. People want more maps
3. HT has plenty of larger maps that could make the people happy
4. HT want's us to not be spread out and bored during the off-peak times, like 4am EST (18 bishops, 13  knits, 19 rooks).

HT does want us to be happy.  They have put a heck of a lot of work into this game for all of us and continue to do so.  On top of it all, we are the paying the customers and every business wants to keep it's customers happy.

I've seen some suggestion for modifications on here I like and others that I don't.

If this system is to stay, but is open to "tweeking", then the one modification I would like to see is (forgive me, I forget who wrote it)...

The bases a country could capture could be based upon their distance from the enemies base.  An example would be anything within 1 1/2 sectors from an enemy base could be captured.  This is a real world approach.  It keeps with the idea of supply convoys and supporting a base.  It establishes the coveted "front line".

It would be the happy medium as well.  It would concentrate the fighting more (than 'old' system) and would also give the player more choices on where and what he/she was going to do.