Why is the P-38 so underestamated in Aces High

[FrodeMk3]

Benny, what you probably should do is ask HiTech, and ask him what resources that he uses for modeling a plane(I.E., Jane's, Defense Department research files, Other open publications, etc.?) Sources are known to differ...and he might have been forced to go on only 1 or 2, instead of cross-referencing more. I agree with Ack-Ack, though. The plane can do multiple tasks, which is what makes it great.

[DREDIOCK]

Having gone against both good 38 pilots, and poor ones. and eveything inbetween I'd have to say that my conclusion is that the 38 isnt modeled wrong so much as its probably flown wrong by those that complain about it.


When in capable hands and when flown correctly the 38 is tough to beat.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Soulyss
awww hell... widewing... don't tell me that... I always end up turning with spit16's.

I get the sickening feeling that this is going to be like one of those roadrunner cartoons where the coyote doesn't fall until he looks down.

I wouldn't worry too much. I'll bet there aren't 10 guys who can turn a 445 foot radius for more than 90 degrees without dumping a wing and spinning out of the turn. That level of turning ability is what the plane can do, most pilots will never even get close to it.

A typical example can be seen in this film. I'm being pursued by a Spit16 and a Spit1. I'm flying a 109K-4 in the TA and pull it into a left-hand lufberry. Neither pilot was able to match my turn radius or turn rate. Their aircraft were able, but they were not. Watch it from the fixed position with the vertical slider all the way down. This will allow you to watch from directly above. Turn on Trails to see the actual turning circles.

Knowing what your plane is capable of and being able to fly it on that edge continuously can make up for the difference on paper, so to speak.

My regards,

Widewing

[roach]

See Rule #4

[Kweassa]

The real P-38 easily outturned any fighter Germany produced in the war.

 The Germans had essentially only two fighters. The bulkier Fw190, in the game, is easily outturned by any P-38. The lighter 109, less than half of what the P-38 weighs, with a more favorable power loading and smaller wing loading, has a much smaller turning circle than the P-38. But many P-38s are davantageous in instantaneous turning capabilities which often makes it more than a match for a 109, especially on the offensive vertical, not to mention the later Bf109K-4 is thoroughly outturned by the P-38.

 So we've got the in-game P-38 easily outturning more than 60% of in-game German fighters, on par with at least 30% of them, and decisively outturned by only the earliest two models of 109s, the E and the F.  

 So how is this supposed to be "modelled wrong" again?

 

and each engine was capable of about 2,000 horsepower.

 Each engine was also capable of adding more weight to the plane, no?

 So try pit the 17,000lbs of P-38 mass with two 2,000hp engines, against a typical single-engined fighters with a single engine rated at 1700~1900hp, weighing in at about 3,000~5,000lbs. Is it any wonder these lighter planes climb faster, turn better, and accelerate better?  

Ground crews regularly set the engines to ratings in excess of 1,800 horsepower.

 The same could be said for a lot of other fighters as well. AH modelling sticks to published data for all planes, not just the P-38.

[Stang]

See Rule #2

[FiLtH]

I think flying style has alot to do with it. Those that like to rope love it as it climbs so nice. Those that BNZ don't fly it so much because of compression, and those that turn fight, can get in something that turns better.

  My opinion why its not used so much is its audience is thin, because most either turn or bnz in here, and when bunched into the mix of AH, it kinda becomes a mediocre plane unless used in the vert with precision.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Raptor
The P38 has an elitest society of cartoon plane pilots. The Hierarchy tree looks like this:
5% - The Secret Society of P38 Pilots:noid
20% - Those that think they are good, but only know how to BnZ
15% - Those that try, and fail miserably to fight in it
60% - Those that use it for bombing

Hense why it is rare to come across a P38 that flies on the edge of the P38 envelope.

Since Raptor let the cat out of the bag so to speak.  It is really a conspiracy of the secret society of AH P38 pilots

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by Stang
Fly the 38 against a zeke and I think you'll like it much better... in fact it should be untouchable in that situation.  That's what Bong and the boys flew against.

Yes, but Bong and the boys weren't afraid to turn fight with Zekes, either.  That "only ninety degrees" rule was for the green pilots.  While that doesn't mean that the P-38 turned as well as a Zeke, of course, that does indicate that they were somewhat comparable.

Originally posted by Kweassa
The lighter 109, less than half of what the P-38 weighs, with a more favorable power loading and smaller wing loading, has a much smaller turning circle than the P-38. But many P-38s are davantageous in instantaneous turning capabilities which often makes it more than a match for a 109, especially on the offensive vertical, not to mention the later Bf109K-4 is thoroughly outturned by the P-38.

Ah, wonderful - the tired old "wing loading" argument.  The Me-109 did indeed have a considerably lower wingloading than the P-38, but the 38 had massively better flaps and better liftloading (as well as several other factors).  You can "calculate" which should turn better until you're blue in the face, leaving out factors.  So did a group of aerodynamics students when they calculated that it is impossible for a bumblebee to fly.  But the facts remain that bumblebees can fly, and the P-38 was superior to the Me-109 in a sustained turn.  Your assessment is quite the opposite of reality; the Me-109 was superior in instantaneous turn only.  The P-38 would catch up in a few seconds.

Me-109 and P-38 aces all agreed that the P-38 turned inside the 109 "with ease," but that if they kept their turns short and reversed direction frequently the American would tire quickly because of heavier controls.  You'll find dozens of Me-109 pilots who stated that the P-38 was the better turner, and you'll not find a one who said the opposite.  And please don't give me that crap from Galland (who later admitted that he wasn't speaking from experience); Galland said nothing about turning ability.  You can do faulty calculations based on one of many factors, but you're always going to be wrong.

[hubsonfire]

"Aerial" has 0 kills. I smell a troll.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by roach
See Rule #4

How was he "rude to the core" in this thread?

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
"Aerial" has 0 kills. I smell a troll.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191864

... Head to head.  While I'm not the best 38 stick here, I do know my airplane.  These films, by the way, were taken before my hand surgury but well after my hands started giving me problems.  Keep in mind that I used to have a lot better control.  Still, if you think that the P-38's a capable plane in the simulator, then feel free to fly it against me in an Me-109.

[Stang]

See Rule #4

[TW9]

i dont think its underated it just requires a certain skill to fly (one i havent figured out yet)

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Stang
See Rule #4

How dare you sir!!!!:mad:


If only there was an ignore function on the BBS to prevent us from seeing such vile diatribes!!!