Hello Tronsky,
Originally posted by -tronski-
Breed for jesus is it? When the Moors ruled spain and the Mediterranean , they brought culture, prosperity, and intially were tolerant to the areas they ruled whereas the rest christian europe was mired in the dark ages...
Tronsky
I should thank you Tronsky, in that posts like this remind me that as Paul reminded the Ephesians in
Eph. 6:12 that the conflict Christians are engaged in (unlike Islam) is not physical but spiritual and that the primary battleground will ever be in the heart. You are under ruthless attack by individuals who, whether they are rich or poor, educated or uneducated, British born of foriegn immigrants all have a common fanatical devotion to Islam, and yet you go out of your way to defend them and instead attack Christ and Christianity.
Admittedly, I never did much self-examination when I was doing the same thing, but have you ever wondered why you have such a visceral hatred for Christianity and an innate desire to make excuses for Islam? And don't kid yourself that it is because Christianity is "repressive" or "intolerant" or "judgmental" - Islam is far more moralistic, even going so far as to tie salvation directly to the performance of good works (of which fighting in the Jihad is but one) so that someone righteous is someone who does righteous works, and intolerant (for instance the Saudis are free to build Mosques and spread Islam throughout the West while
no new building of non-Islamic houses of worship or evangelization is permitted). As I said, I didn't think on this phonomena at all prior to being born again, but after that I found the explanation for my prior actions in
John 15:18-25 In any event in answer to your question nothing in my post said anything remotely like the cynical
"breed for Jesus" line. As you'll remember, I'm orginally from Britain myself and still keep in touch with friends and family, read British media, etc. We both know that Britain is to use the German Chancellor's phrase a "post-Christian" nation with only a tiny evangelical community. Football has a much larger and devoted following than Christ, so in a very real sense the current worldview struggle there is not between Islam and Christianity, its between Islam and various expressions of materialism.
What I was pointing out in my original post was simply a statistical certainity given current trends. As British Journalist Melanie Phillips put in 2002, Britain is committing a form of "social suicide." Indigenous Britons no longer marry (the marriage rate has dropped to 40%) or have families of any size, in fact they are currently having children at a rate
below the replacement level and abortion has reached all time highs (So much for Nelson's:
"England Expects That Every Man Will Do His Duty"). By contrast, Muslims marry and generally have large families. They are in that sense providing the future population of Britain. They are also proving resistant to the siren-song of atheistic materialism which dominates indigenous Britain, in fact their leaders routinely complain about how decadent and empty of purpose the society has become and I'd say their critique is correct, but their solution is worse than the problem. Tronsky, if current trends continue, in a hundred years Britain will be a nation dominated by masjids, maddrassas, minarets and hijabs.
As for the "enlightened" rule of Spain. It depends on which dynasty you are talking about - the Berber kingdoms of the Almoravides and Almohads were certainly far from enlightened and "tolerant". They make the modern day Wahabbis seem mild by comparison and during their rule both the Christians and Jews fled from their territories to avoid death or forced conversion.
But even if one takes the most benign and ahistorical view of Islamic rule of "Andalusia" my point was that Islam being about the business of Jihad was the norm, lets just take the years you referenced between the conquest of Spain and the eventual reconquest for instance:
711 - Beginning of the Muslim Conquest of Spain
711 Tariq ibn Malik, a Berber officer, crosses the strait separating Africa and Europe with a group of Muslims and enters Spain.
711 With the further conquest of Egypt, Spain and North Africa, Islam included all of the Persian empire and most of the old Roman world under Islamic rule. Muslims began the conquest of Sindh in Afghanistan
715 By this year just about all of Spain is in Muslim hands. The Muslim conquest of Spain only took around three years but the Christian reconquest would require around 460 years.
716 Lisbon is captured by Muslims.
717 Second Siege of Constantinople
719 Muslims attack Septimania in southern France
724 Muslim forces raid southern France and capture the cities of Carcassone and Nimes
730 Muslim forces occupy the French cities of Narbonne and Avignon.
732 Battle of Tours: With perhaps 1,500 soldiers, Charles Martel halts a Muslim force of around 40,000 to 60,000 cavalry under Abd el-Rahman Al Ghafiqi from moving farther into Europe.
732 Muslim empire reaches its furthest extent.
755 Abd ar-Rahman founds an Umayyad Dynasty in Cordoba, Spain.
800s Written collections of Hadith (sayings of the Prophet) are compiled. Sicily comes under Muslim rule.
813 Muslims attack the Civi Vecchia near Rome.
831 Muslim invaders capture the Sicilian city of Palermo and make it their capital.
838 Muslim raiders sack Marseille.
846 Muslim raiders sail a fleet of ships from Africa up the Tiber river and attack outlying areas around Ostia and Rome. Some manage to enter Rome and damage the churches of St. Peter and St. Paul. Not until Pope Leo IV promises a yearly tribute of 25,000 silver coins do the raiders leave. The Leonine Wall is built in order to fend off further attacks such as this.
859 Muslim invaders capture the Sicilian city of Castrogiovanni
869 Arabs capture the island of Malta
870 After a month-long siege, the Sicilian city of Syracuse is captured by Muslim invaders.
876 Muslims pillage Campagna in Italy.
884 Muslims invading Italy burn the monastery of Monte Cassino to the ground.
902 The Muslim conquest of Sicily is completed. Muslim rule of Sicily would last for 264 years
911 Muslims control all the passes in the Alps between France and Italy, cutting off passage between the two countries.
920 Muslim forces cross the Pyrenees, enter Gascony, and reach as far as the gates of Toulouse.
928 Umayyad Abd ar-Rahman III declares himself caliph in Cordoba.
939 Madrid is recaptured from Muslim forces.
969 Fatimids gain power in Egypt and attack Palestine, Syria, and Arabia.
985 Al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir sacks Barcelona
994 The monastery of Monte Cassino is destroyed a second time by Arabs.
1004 Arab raiders sack the Italian city of Pisa
1009 The Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem is destroyed by Muslim armies.
1012 Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, founder of the Druze sect and sixth Fatimid Caliph in Egypt, orders the destruction of all Christian and Jewish houses of worship in his lands.
1012 Berber forces capture Cordova and order that half the population be executed.
1015 Arab Muslim forces conquer Sardinia.
1030 Umayyad caliphate in Cordoba defeated by the Christian Reconquista.
1042 The rise of the Seljuk Turks begins.
1055 Seljuk Turks take Baghdad
1064 The Seljuk Turks conquer Christian Armenia.
1071 Seljuk Turks defeat Byzantines at Battle of Manzikert.
1071 - 1085 Seljuk Turks conquer most of Syria and Palestine.
1073 Seljuk Turks conquer Ankara.
1088 Patzinak Turks begin forming settlements between the Danube and the Balkans.
1096 FIRST CRUSADE
1099 Christian Crusaders take Jerusalem.
1100-1200s Sufi orders (turuq) are founded.
1171 Fatimid power ends in Egypt with the conquests of Saladin.
1174 Saladin declares himself sultan of Egypt and Syria.
1193 Death of Saladin; most of Crusader states have returned to Islam.
1221 Genghis Khan and the Mongols enter Persia.
1241 Mongols take the Punjab.
1258 Mongols capture Baghdad; city is sacked and caliph is killed. End of Abbasid caliphate.
1281-1324 Reign of Uthman (Osman), who founds the Ottoman Empire. Muslim merchants and missionary Sufis settle in SE Asia.
mid-1300s Ottomans capture Bursa and Iznik and move into Europe.
late 1300s Ottomas take control of the Balkans.
1400s Islam reaches the Philippines.
1453 Mehmet Fatih (rules 1451-81) conquers Constantinople.
1492 Reconquista ends. All Muslims expelled from Spain.
The reversal of that Reconquista is proceeding apace in modern day Spain with Jihadist attacks actually increasing after Spain's withdrawal from Iraq. As in nature, weakness never deters predators.
