Author Topic: Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???  (Read 4369 times)

Offline Slash27

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2007, 07:13:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1cajun
Maybe the regulars should pick a quadrant in the NW corner and have their own private dueling arena and everyone else can treat it as a no fly zone then some of us who would really enjoy some historical action can get involved.  
Bottom line is the numbers are low because the regulars like it that way.  



Maybe some of us focus too much on the 1 vs 1, true. But that is not the only reason reason the numbers are low by any means. The major reason is you can fly what you want when you want in the MAs.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 09:08:40 PM by Slash27 »

Offline E25280

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2007, 07:20:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1cajun
Bottom line is the numbers are low because the regulars like it that way.  

Strong words from someone who hasn't shown his face in the arena at all this tour and for only 37 minutes last tour.

I don't think you know / care who the "regulars" really are.  You simply have an axe to grind because someone acted poorly toward you, so you paint all who go there with a single broad brush.


Not sure why people who don't frequent the AvA seem to feel the need to denigrate it.  If it isn't for you, fine, don't go there.  But quit slandering it.
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Offline 1cajun

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2007, 07:20:46 PM »
Agreed.  My comments are not made as personal attacks and I hope nobody has taken offense in any way.  I am just an old guy who loves the historical aspect of the game and would like to see the arena become all that it could be.

I don't like the MA a lot of times.  Especially when you find a good fight or a nice base defense or grab going on and get in some good fights only to have an La7 come screaming through picking at the fringes.  

all   :aok
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storch

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2007, 07:54:11 PM »
there you have one of the snivelling AvA commandos now.  it's amazing that guy is on the staff.

Offline 1cajun

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2007, 08:17:12 PM »
Unbelievable.  :rolleyes:

I don't think I could have been any clearer in my above posts that
1.  I like the arena.
2.  The idea and set up is great and
3.  I am not denegrating all of the regulars or attacking anyone.

I have no axe to grind with the arena or anyone in it.  Not once have I acted disrespectful towards anyone when I was there and never have I put anything in the buffer except great fight.

The question was, "Why is the AvA always empty?"  The answer to this can only be arrived at by careful examination and open discussion.  Again, I would like to see this arena grow and become what it was meant to be.  An arena with historical planesets that would provide for better gameplay for those who don't like the 50 v 50 matchups with uber rides.

If you have taken my comments personally or feel that I am talking about everyone in the arena or am just here to trash it then I apologize.  That was not my intention.
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Offline Slash27

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2007, 09:10:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
there you have one of the snivelling AvA commandos now.  it's amazing that guy is on the staff.




Dojo!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pntB_Ct-sbA

Offline Gumbeau

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2007, 09:40:28 PM »
The ideal method for turning the AvA into a 24/7 historical matchup arena is for several squads to decide to become AvA regulars and go take over the place.

Basically, you need to run the "Rules of Engagement" crowd out of the place.

If there is a regular presence of historically minded squads flying and stealing all the toys then the duelists will leave and an historical setting can be implemented.

And here is a little Glossary............

Cherry Picker ----- US Navy calls this Loose Deuce
Alt Monkey------- I'm smart enough to climb higher than you
Vulcher-------------I'm too stupid to takeoff from a rear base
Fair Fight----------Oxymoron. If it is fair it aint a fight, its a dance.

And no, I dont fly in the AvA. Its too full of whiners when I go in there with my 7 wingmen and commit cherry picking, alt monkeying, vultching and unfair fighting.

Offline Oldman731

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2007, 10:06:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gumbeau
The ideal method for turning the AvA into a 24/7 historical matchup arena is for several squads to decide to become AvA regulars and go take over the place.

Basically, you need to run the "Rules of Engagement" crowd out of the place.  

Dude, you bring the people, we'll worry about whether we stay.  You and your seven bodyguards are welcome any time.

- oldman

Offline TequilaChaser

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2007, 10:22:37 PM »
people say they don't want to waste HOURS waiting on someone else to show up............

I will and do go into the AvsA and can not remember sitting / waiting past 7 or 8 minutes full with out 2 or 3 people popping in and seeing what is going on, then vala  the fights startup.....

and this is at any time of the day......

there have been 5 good size squads I can think of in the CT/AvsA, and 2 of them started with JG..........1 started with VF

and someone posted somewhere about tripping over  one's on ego regarding certian players/squads in the AvsA........


everything in life really is "what you make  it" nothing more........

try to have an optimistic approach and relax and have fun.........


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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2007, 11:06:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
there have been 5 good size squads I can think of in the CT/AvsA, and 2 of them started with JG..........1 started with VF


~S~


2 started with VF:D

Offline MWL

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2007, 11:24:16 PM »
Greetings,

 AvA should post the unofficial, unwritten rules in the arena's MOTD so ppl know what to expect - rather than just getting into yelling at them.  

 For, example I dove in to help a countrymate to be told in no uncertain terms that I was 'picking' and unwelcome.  Okay, fine.  Climbed out, watched him die, landed and logged.  

 Later a squaddie asked me to got to the AvA.  I did.  Lifted a 110 and headed his way.  Then I got a message that 5k was the 'ceiling' in AvA.  Lovely, I pick the only BnZ plane in the mix and I am not supposed to BnZ, that would have been nice to know.  I could have lifted an Echo....

  I would like to visit a time period focused arena, but I don't understand why 'duelests' occupy that arena.  If the pilots there want to duel, and it is their 15 dollars, why abuse those who are interested in the arena instead of moving on to the Dueling arena?

 It will be a long time till I venture into the AvA arena again - cause I don't want or need to put up with the verbal crap.

  Now, we may all return to our hand wringing on why the AvA is not used and no one plays there.

Regards,
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 12:30:35 AM by MWL »

Offline toonces3

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2007, 12:10:41 AM »
I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here.

The reason 'I' don't go to AvA as much as I'd like has to do with the artificial rules of engagement, even though at first I thought this was a good idea.

Other reasons are a lack of players, or the inability to fly the MA plane of choice, or varients of the 'dueling' attitude argument.

There's a segment of folks, like me I think, that like the idea of the AvA but with the ability to fight like in the MA, ie. flying in a group, attacking from an advantage, and forcing the enemy to fight your fight.

There's another group, in my opinion, that maybe sees the AvA as a sanctuary from the MA attitude.  I can say that in every case I've been in the AvA the calibre of player has been way, way higher than the typical MA.  I can get a 2+ K/D ratio in AvA, but struggle for something like 0.3 in the AvA.  You need to bring your 'a' game in there for sure.

I think Oldman has a really valid point that gets lost in the noise, and it's in a gray area that only a fairly experienced player will appreciate.  I like to win and get kills as much as the next guy.  But, on the same note, if you're dominating the other team to the extent that they don't want to play, then you're ruining your own fun.   If a group decides to vulch a field, on the one hand that should force the other team to move back a base- that 'should' be the point in the MA.  On the other hand, if there's 10 folks on and 8 are killing 2, why in the world would the 2 stay?

We've all seen this.  In the 348th FG, there have been quite a few times when we all logged in on different sides to even up the numbers.  In fact, one of the most memorable nights was when I went several turns with a 109 in a F6F, only to find out after I threw a that I was fighting my squad mate Trotter, who is a far better stick than me.  Or hunting MWL down in his 110.  We don't feel any need to stick to squad/country lines when the AvA is unpopulated.

But then there was another night when a few were on, and the whining about picking and ganging was just out of hand.

I've heard at least one regular lament why we'd want the AvA to be like the MA.  I can understand that.  You play this game enough, I can imagine getting to the point where you just want to find a good fight without having to look over your shoulder the whole time.  That fight TC posted could never happen in the MA, and I'm sure it was a treat to fly.  

I don't know what the solution is, or if there is a solution.  Again, all the gripes in the MA are solved in the AvA; you have large maps, generally good fights, equal uber-rides, etc...  Why folks don't flock there confuses me.  If you could get 100 guys in there a night, I probably wouldn't fly in any other arena.
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Offline Gumbeau

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2007, 12:53:17 AM »
The reason folks don't go there is pretty simple.

The people who have gained control over the AvA want a very specific set of behaviors that doesn't appeal to very many people.

Anyone who behaves outside the set is encouraged to stay away.


I've always had the attitude that if I die flying online it is because I made a mistake.

The AvA 'grognards' have the attitude that death is caused by deviations from the rules of 'fair play'

I've seen this mindset before. The guys that want to duel but never want to face someone in the same aircraft type. What other reason can they have for so many 'rules' and NOT be in the Dueling Arena?

The supposed rules are all cover for various deficiencies.

Cherry Picking....... Like I said before the US Navy calls this Loose Deuce tactics. One guy makes the bandit predictable and his wingman comes unseen and kills him. I fly Loose Deuce all the time. It is extremely effective against bandits with poor SA. AvA outlaws poor SA by calling it 'Cherry Picking'.

No Head Ons.......It takes two to head on. If one guy is trying to avoid the HO it aint no HO no MO. I welcome guys trying to HO. It tells me immediately they have limited understanding of ACM. I know how to avoid and turn it to my advantage. In the AvA, they make rules agin it because they don't know how to defeat it.

Alt Monkey.......... Air Combat is a 3 dimensional world. It is difficult for many to effectively operate in all three dimensions. By creating a rule to limit altitude the third dimension is taken away, especially for later in the war. The fights all degenerate into low altitude circle jerks, easy on the SA and favoring the point and shoot style of flying.

Gang Bangin........ There is a reason they are called Air Forces. They are not an army of one. If you insist on flying on the deck and getting anchored you are going to see the rest of the home team show up to wipe the floor with you. You should have made a plan to escape other than yelling "Thats not fair". Savlan's example of a Martial Arts movie is great. You aren't Jet Li surrounded by 30 guys with swords who wait patiently so you can finish them off one by one. You get surrounded by 30 guys with swords, you are sushi.

When I came to AH I was hoping the AvA would a place where you could find historical flying, a place to re-create some of the classics from history. Instead I found a Dueling Arena with lots of rules and very little that encouraged teamwork or realistic tactics or flying styles.

Offline Vudak

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2007, 01:11:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1cajun
Especially when you find a good fight or a nice base defense or grab going on and get in some good fights only to have an La7 come screaming through picking at the fringes.

 



Well...  I mean...  You might not be in an La7 in AvA...  But...

Isn't that pretty much the "historical tactics" you wanted?

Or, did you mean to say you only like being the attacker in such situations?

:huh

---------

I'm not an AvA regular, so take this for what it's worth, but...

Call me an elitist if you will, I prefer to know that when I log into the AvA, I'm going to have some good scraps with other like-minded souls who also appreciate a good scrap, and the worst gang-banging I'm going to have is, say, 2 *MAYBE* 3 to 1.  I like knowing that, chances are, I'm going to run into a sporting group of fellows.

Bring in an influx of players from the MA, and I fear that's just not going to be the situation any more.  You'll have gangbangers, HOnRuners, cherry pickers, and vulchers galore.  When I want to deal with (or partake in - I'm no angel) that, I can go to the MA, thanks.

So really, I'm not so keen on advertising the place.  If 10 people can still be found in there every now and then, that's perfectly fine.

- And just for the record - My first time in the AvA ever, I immediately HO'd someone, got called on it, said, "You stuck your face in my face," and pretty much got chased out of the arena.

One of the best things that ever happened to me :aok
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Offline 475FG Savlan

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Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2007, 01:28:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MWL
It will be a long time till I venture into the AvA arena again - cause I don't want or need to put up with the verbal crap.


And before anyone says it, detuning 200 is not the answer.

I NEVER fly with 200 on, especially in an arena like the AvA.

Unlike those who base their knowledge of history from 'Black Sheep Squadron' episodes, I know that combatants didnt goad each other over comms like Harachi & Boyington ..."come on up to play, BOY-EENG-TUN'...'not today, riceball!' ...so I detune it.

I will use the .s command, however. Kinda like a wagging of the wings or a salute a la Robert Johnson & Egon Mayer.

But alas, detuning 200 alone dosn't work, because the folks private message you repeatedly to berate you.

As for the comments made by Oldman, points made are quite valid, and well taken.  Any true squad worth its mettle upon seeing a great #'s imbalance should/would probably move to an other arena, or split the squad, as seal clubbing is no fun.

However, its all in your perception...I have sent a wingpair in on two bandits, while the rest of the squad stayed high. Said bandits see nothing but P38s in every view during their fight, and hence claim 'gangbang' - even though they were engaged evenly the whole time.

FWIW.

PUDGY
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